Female Body Cavity Search
 

Two state Rep. from NH were on Fox this morning talking about legislation curbing TSA. One guy said pat downs and scanner were fine if there was a REASON to search otherwise were not legal. When interviewer asked about feds having the power to do this answered if TSA person punched him in the face he would have him arrested, sexually assaulting was the same. THEN HE MENTIONED THAT HE HAS A FEMALE HOUSEGUEST WHO IS A RESIDENT OF NH WHO, FOR NO REASON, WAS TAKEN INTO A BACK ROOM aT THE AIRPORT AND HAD A CAVITY SEARCH WITH FINGERS GOING INSIDE HER. He didn't say it WAS TSA that did it but that was the topic being discussed. I believe if it was customs a medical person would have had to do it. Seems she would have gotten a lawyer, gone public or something. Anyone have any info?

I did find this:

"At a public hearing, another one of the bill’s co-sponsors testified that he knows of a woman who suffered through a Cavity search at the Manchester, Boston Regional Airport within the last few months.

“That’s tyranny, ok? There’s no reason for them to do it. They didn’t give her a reason for doing it” said Rep. Andrew Manuse, legislation co-sponsor."

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/l...exams-a-crime/

If it was customs, I believe they'd have to take the person to a medical facility to have it done by qualified personnel, and customs can only require such instrusive searches based on probable cause at an immigration facility. They can't just haul some random person off to a hospital or a back room somewhere.

Assuming it was TSA, did they change their gloves between cavity searches? :D

I'd Rather Walk posted the following quote: This seems logical to me. I've been thinking about the TSA's claim that they have a Federal Mandate to provide Transportation Security, and this mandate means they can violate our rights to be secure in our persons against illegal searches and seizures, plus commit sexual assaults and irradiate us, the latter of which I suspect also qualifies as assault.

I don't think so.

There are a lot of Federal Agencies, and they all operate under federal mandates, but they aren't allowed to violate citizens' constitutional rights. Why should the TSA be the exception?

I think their lawyers are trying to baffle us with BS, hoping we won't test them in court.

I think the TSA leadership is lying. (Again:rolleyes:) They know what they're doing is illegal and immoral. They just think Americans are dumber than stumps, and will tolerate just about anything.

In most cases, they're right.

Just look at how many people are willing to walk through the scanners at the airport.

Then look at how many people are willing to perform the gropes on the TSAs behalf.

There's no shortage of stupid, and no shortage of thugs willing to take advantage of those who're unwilling to stick up for themselves - or aren't aware that they *can* stick up for themselves - or are unwilling to stick up for those they're supposed to be protecting (in the cases of people taking children or disabled/incapacitated adults through the porno-booth or let them be groped.)

The odd thing is Pistole said there should not be any touching under the skin let alone cavity search. Therefore whoever did this is already subject to arrest if she filed a complaint. I would think this woman would have raised a fuss over this but maybe she is too embarrased by what happened to go public.
The interviewer on Fox didn't ask anything about this and just went on.
He didn't say so but I had the feeling this is what brought on the legislation to go after the TSA.

This sounds like a tall tale to me.

Even so, I would never have believed that TSA would have male TSOs groping female passenger's breasts.

Since TSA won't tell us what the real rules are (if indeed there are any), I think it possible that this could occur, if only as another UBAI (Unconnected Bad Apple Incident).

That no complaint has been filed proves nothing one way or the other, as most sexual crimes go unreported.

If all of this actually happened why wasn't it all over the news? I'm thinking BS.
Not saying the TSA isn't capable of something this hideous....

I would like to think TSA would not engage in acts like this but based on the preponderance of evidence that we do have on other issues I can not rule out that this did in fact not happen.

Nope, just reasonable suspicion.

Up for debate.

CP: That's why I asked if anyone knew of this. What makes me believe it was seeing the interview where the NH Rep, a pretty believable source, said the woman involved was staying with him.

I don't necessarily find this story unbelievable.

We have seen too many incidents where TSO's obviously witnessed misconduct by fellow workers and said nothing.

There are accounts of folks who are not advised of their right to have a witness to backroom frisks.

This happened at a smaller airport - to me, that makes it even more believable.

It couldn't happen? It is preposterous? She should (ha ha) have immediately asked for a supervisor - and what? If she'd demanded on the spot tests, etc. and gotten them and it had proven he'd penetrated her, he would have said it was inappropriate but consensual.

Further, I'm sure folks thought it couldn't happen at a border crossing either.
Except it did.

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2010...-on-trial.html

The State Rep didn't say it was a male that did the cavity search (he also didn't say it wasn't) In looking for info on this I saw some third hand remarks in an AP story where another NH State Rep said this happened to a woman staying with another State Rep. The timeline seemed to be a couple of months ago. The feeling I get, just a wild guess is this woman may be the State Rep's girlfriend, or relative. There is probably a reason they don't want publicity. Found this link although on Fox he said woman lived with him:

"Bill sponsor Rep. Andrew Manuse, R-Derry, called the new security procedures a slippery slope. "What's next? Will they do body-cavity searches?" he asked, and noted he was told of a woman who lives with one of his constituents being strip-searched at Manchester-Boston Regional Airport."

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...e-498b569ab8ac

(bolding mine). You mean they are not supposed to haul someone off to a back room. And procedures are supposed to be followed and there are supposed to be safeguards against this sort of thing happening.

Tell it to four women who experienced something similar, just not at the hands of TSA.

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2010...-on-trial.html

Jail Time for This Border Guard
 

The guy is only going to get 2 1/2 to 3 years in prison but hopefully will get many more years on the sex offender registry. Here's a picture of the guy and article about what he did: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Bor...338/story.html

The resaon I asked if anyone knew about trhis was because I wanted to forward this to Chaffetz, if I could have found more detail. Seems to be some reason the woman doesn't want to go public. On the other hand, if it happened to my wife, she would not want anyone to know.

Off topic but funny in a wierd way. In looking through sites about the NH TSA I found several complaints from people that traveled with copies of the U.S. Constitution in their pocket. Seems that was an automatic reason to be pulled aside and given a pat down. I know I feel safer already.

He was found guilty on all charges
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2010...link=mirelated

And was sentenced to two year less a day:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...x-assault.html

And yet I can imagine the skepticism that greeted these women when they reported the incidents.

The same skepticism that Cartoon Peril and bzbdewd expressed earlier in this thread about the woman who has reported to close friends that she was assaulted by TSA.

Go to the news? You've got to be kidding me! One other poster simultaneously doubts that the story is real because she won't come forward and let her face be splattered all over the media while simultaneously admitting that his own wife probably wouldn't do so.

And you notice - the woman herself did not choose to go public. No tape, no proof, TSA's reputation - all she would have accomplished would have been to be publicly attacked and humiliated. As I posted earlier, even if she had emerged from the assault and demanded an LEO and reported what happened, do you think they would have taken it seriously enough to immediately detain the guy, swab his hands or confiscate his gloves, and follow up? Or let him get rid of the gloves/wash his hands and say there was no proof, he's had a background check, bla-bla?

And as I posted earlier, if they had gotten DNA proof of intimate contact off the guy, he undoubtedly would have said he'd behaved unprofessionally but that it was 'consensual'.

"Cleanup on checkpoint 4. Retraining needed."

I expressed skepticism but have never said it didn't happen; in fact, I stated:

Exactly, victims of sexual assault rarely come forth to report the crime for many combination of reasons including but not limited to humiliation, fear, trauma, and social, cultural and/or religious stigmas.

Just out of curiousity, for those who wonder why this woman might hesitate to come forward and get her name splattered all over the media:

To the men on this forum: if this happened to you (taken into a back room and mishandled), would you report it?

Never mind if you lost it and physically attacked the TSO (we're assuming here that he is not bigger than you). Would you come forward knowing that folks are going to be skeptical, it's your word against his, and everyone is going to want to know in intimate detail what happened. And why you didn't resist when he started going there.

I don't think anyone is saying it has to be reported to be believed. That's especially true in this context, and I wish somebody from TSA would actually acknowledge this.

Good Lord, report abuse to whom? The perp's best friend who steered you his way? Make a scene and be arrested yourself, maybe in a distant city from your home?

TSA puts passengers in a terrible situation. There is an extreme degree of compulsion here. One has to be thinking -- "Will I be arrested? Will I be tazed?" when they "offer" (= "force") the "private" room on someone. What could happen there? Who the hell knows?

Most people don't make a habit of going off into private rooms under threat of force with strangers, and for good reasons. Yet TSA tells us this is what must happen.

Agree, not many would welcome the public scrutiny. But I would never go to the private room to start with. People have to be educated on this. DON'T GO. This is no different than any other situation where some criminal wants to exert power over you and move you to a private location by force. Your best chance for survival is not to go. and these TSA scum who are moving you to the private room are no better than the rapists, IMO.

Do all law enforcement abuses make the news? They should, but I'm doubtful our news media is that good.

First of all I don't believe Fox news. Second, since there is no report of this woman's incident I have to call BS on it. If it happened then there had to be a reason that this woman was searched and more than likely it probably wasn't the TSA but Customs or LEO's that did the search. Since there is no source on the incident other than Fox News, then I am declined to believe in it.

As far as I know this Rep could have been making the story up. Sorry but that's how I view things.

If this did happen then I do feel bad for the woman, but like I said I seriously doubt that it was the TSA and there is not enough information to make a determination on what happened.

you have no grounds for saying it's BS, other than you have an axe to grind. the most you can say is that it is unsubstantiated.

This wasn't reported by fox news. It was mentioned by one of the sponsors of the New Hampshire legislation making TSA sex assaults criminal acts in NH. There were two NH State Reps interviewed by one of the Fox talking heads. In discussing the legislation one Rep. told what happened to the woman and said the woman was a NH resident and was staying at his house. The person doing the interview didn't ask anything about it, just moved on. It was just told in passing as a reason why this law was needed. Don't know if Fox has clips on its website, it was on about 11:30 am CT.

Since there has been report after report of passengers being told that they have no choice but to go to the private screening rooms for their secondary screening even after they say they have no problem with it being done in public.

That makes it seem like 1. That private room is not there just for the passengers to choose for their own privacy concerns and 2. That more than just a patdown can happen during that secondary screening.

Because there have been hints from certain TSA Agents that make it sound like that secondary search can turn really bad for a passenger if they get another positive hit during that secondary search.

So based on the sinister hints. I'm thinking that in TSA's secret rules somewhere there is a rule where a passenger will be given no choice but to remove their clothing so a more invasive search of their body can be done if a passenger gets another positive reading on that secondary search.

I'm not saying that a regular TSA Agent has the authority to do that, but I do think there is some higher up agent who has a ranking that TSA/DHS has given to them that has the authority to order that be done.

Now whether that particular ordered type of search is done by real law enforcement or TSA is the big question and I guess it is just to bad for the passenger if that type of search is done and it turns out to be just another false positive.

A woman has potentially undergone a body cavity search by a non-LEO government actor in a private room and you "feel bad for the woman."

Thank goodness she wasn't severely injured or you might have to feel really bad for her.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Yet another reason to refuse to go. Just leave. Others have suggested being prepared by purchasing refundable tickets, have alternate travel plans etc.

They don't need secret rules to have clothing removed. Although Pistole has said publically clothing is never removed and skin under underware is not touched there have been complaints about both. Around the holidays, an older disabled had to drop his pants and TSA requires woman with tight skirts to take them off in a private room. It seems to me the majority of abuse seems to come from predatores working for the TSA or employees just poorly trained or not good at their jobs. Pistole was all the news during his pr sweep saying that TSA will not do cavity searches. If this was done those doing it should have been arrrested.

TSA pulls pants off 71 y/o man with knee implant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-jdD...eature=related

Well, if you take into account all of the criminals, predators, and incompetent boobs working for the TSA - who's left to count?

Yes and Pistole said all that during a PR sweep. Do I trust him to mean what he says. No I do not believe him, not after he decided to implement these more invasive patdowns on the passengers in secret.

Based on that... Does anyone really think he is going to inform the passengers that TSA will be doing real strip searches and body cavity searches on them?

The way Pistole's mind works. I'd say no way. It is going to be a surprise as in...

The passenger's are going to find out about that search only when they are being told they have no choice but to submit or Do You Want To Fly Today?

Pistole's exact words were

He did NOT say "We are never going to do body cavity searches". The remark about "not going to be in the business of body cavity searches" does not preclude doing it on a less than 100% basis.

It wouldn't have happened to me. I'd have resisted, physically if necessary. I suspect this is one of the reasons this happens to women more often -- the studies I've read show that women tend to be more compliant and non-adversarial. I'm glad that, since the advent of feminism in the 60s and 70s, that women are now consciously working against that tendency.

That's the point. I'd be screaming bloody murder the minute the agent directed me to a public restroom.

Two things the TSA are actually good at are pr (just saw Big Sis on tv saying there have been very few complaints on the new pat downs and scanners) and intimidation. Alaska Rep Cissna, a woman who looks like a younger and more attractive Aunt Bea, said as soon as she objected to being sexually assaulted she was surounded by a bunch of large men in uniform, including the real police trying to get her to along with it. Supose you weren't politically connected and your job required travel. Are you going to refuse and risk the dreaded no fly list? As soon as there is any reistance the police are called and a group appears. (A female who posted here not too long ago about a predator male TSO who insisted he should give her a pat down did back off when she threatened to scream, so maybe screamimg works?)

That's not really the case. The incident with the four women happened here, in Canada with a CBSA agent. We tend to take these things seriously. He will be doing time in a provincial facility (2 years less a day) and then three years of probation. Guaranteed he will not be able to get any kind of a job in a position of authority. According to his lawyer :He will likely end up on the National Sex Offender Registry for a minimum of 10 years but likely 20 as his crimes carry a maximum penalty of 10 years:
Boo Hoo for him. He deserves anything and everything that is thrown at him. Also not that at least one of the his victims was American. I'll be interested to see if the case originally noted in this thread generates a similar response given it was a Canadian woman and US border agents.

Don't want to misjudge the intent of this thread, but why is there anything special about searching female cavities. Aren't ALL cavity searches wrong for innocent people?

An extremely brave female investigative reporter needs to set herself up for one of these searches so she can tell the public what happens in the private room when a second positive test occurs.

Come to think of it, there probably need to be two or three such "probes" into the workings of the TSA:

1. A reporter is pulled aside for a resolution pat down after WBI and goes alone "willingly" in to the private room.

2. A reporter does as above but insists on having a witness of her choosing, and

3. A reporter is pulled aside for a resolution pat down but refuses to go into the private room.

To paraphrase another poster in another thread: Are there such reporters left in this world who would do this for their country?

Reporters have gone through, a CNN reporter, editor got a pat down she described as a gyn exam with hands going inside her underwear. Pistole was asked about it when interviewed onn CNN, said it should not have happened and everyone went on to the next question. The problem is majority of TSA people probably do a decent job given the rules they have to work with. Several people here have posted their pat down was professional although uncomfortable. There are some that are incompetent at what they do and some who are mean spirited and some seem to be actual predators. A high percentage of the males doing female complaints , (if I remember right) were at Boston. We've had some pretty horrble stories, like the man who had to travel covered in his own urine, a women had to undo her dress in public because TSA said is was a coat, another woman who was older and overweight was being yelled at to remove a bulky sweater which got caught on her bra undoing it and letting her breasts fall out, on and on. Media covers for a day and goes on to something else. TSA issues pr saying they are aware, sensitve to, working on the issue, blah blah giving the impression the problem will be fixed until it's forgotten.

There has not been any real leadership for pax in the movement against the TSA. Two organized groups did fight the TSA, pilots and flight attendants, both won.