They don't need secret rules to have clothing removed. Although Pistole has said publically clothing is never removed and skin under underware is not touched there have been complaints about both. Around the holidays, an older disabled had to drop his pants and TSA requires woman with tight skirts to take them off in a private room. It seems to me the majority of abuse seems to come from predatores working for the TSA or employees just poorly trained or not good at their jobs. Pistole was all the news during his pr sweep saying that TSA will not do cavity searches. If this was done those doing it should have been arrrested.

TSA pulls pants off 71 y/o man with knee implant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-jdD...eature=related

Well, if you take into account all of the criminals, predators, and incompetent boobs working for the TSA - who's left to count?

Yes and Pistole said all that during a PR sweep. Do I trust him to mean what he says. No I do not believe him, not after he decided to implement these more invasive patdowns on the passengers in secret.

Based on that... Does anyone really think he is going to inform the passengers that TSA will be doing real strip searches and body cavity searches on them?

The way Pistole's mind works. I'd say no way. It is going to be a surprise as in...

The passenger's are going to find out about that search only when they are being told they have no choice but to submit or Do You Want To Fly Today?

Pistole's exact words were

He did NOT say "We are never going to do body cavity searches". The remark about "not going to be in the business of body cavity searches" does not preclude doing it on a less than 100% basis.

It wouldn't have happened to me. I'd have resisted, physically if necessary. I suspect this is one of the reasons this happens to women more often -- the studies I've read show that women tend to be more compliant and non-adversarial. I'm glad that, since the advent of feminism in the 60s and 70s, that women are now consciously working against that tendency.

That's the point. I'd be screaming bloody murder the minute the agent directed me to a public restroom.

Two things the TSA are actually good at are pr (just saw Big Sis on tv saying there have been very few complaints on the new pat downs and scanners) and intimidation. Alaska Rep Cissna, a woman who looks like a younger and more attractive Aunt Bea, said as soon as she objected to being sexually assaulted she was surounded by a bunch of large men in uniform, including the real police trying to get her to along with it. Supose you weren't politically connected and your job required travel. Are you going to refuse and risk the dreaded no fly list? As soon as there is any reistance the police are called and a group appears. (A female who posted here not too long ago about a predator male TSO who insisted he should give her a pat down did back off when she threatened to scream, so maybe screamimg works?)

That's not really the case. The incident with the four women happened here, in Canada with a CBSA agent. We tend to take these things seriously. He will be doing time in a provincial facility (2 years less a day) and then three years of probation. Guaranteed he will not be able to get any kind of a job in a position of authority. According to his lawyer :He will likely end up on the National Sex Offender Registry for a minimum of 10 years but likely 20 as his crimes carry a maximum penalty of 10 years:
Boo Hoo for him. He deserves anything and everything that is thrown at him. Also not that at least one of the his victims was American. I'll be interested to see if the case originally noted in this thread generates a similar response given it was a Canadian woman and US border agents.

Don't want to misjudge the intent of this thread, but why is there anything special about searching female cavities. Aren't ALL cavity searches wrong for innocent people?

An extremely brave female investigative reporter needs to set herself up for one of these searches so she can tell the public what happens in the private room when a second positive test occurs.

Come to think of it, there probably need to be two or three such "probes" into the workings of the TSA:

1. A reporter is pulled aside for a resolution pat down after WBI and goes alone "willingly" in to the private room.

2. A reporter does as above but insists on having a witness of her choosing, and

3. A reporter is pulled aside for a resolution pat down but refuses to go into the private room.

To paraphrase another poster in another thread: Are there such reporters left in this world who would do this for their country?

Reporters have gone through, a CNN reporter, editor got a pat down she described as a gyn exam with hands going inside her underwear. Pistole was asked about it when interviewed onn CNN, said it should not have happened and everyone went on to the next question. The problem is majority of TSA people probably do a decent job given the rules they have to work with. Several people here have posted their pat down was professional although uncomfortable. There are some that are incompetent at what they do and some who are mean spirited and some seem to be actual predators. A high percentage of the males doing female complaints , (if I remember right) were at Boston. We've had some pretty horrble stories, like the man who had to travel covered in his own urine, a women had to undo her dress in public because TSA said is was a coat, another woman who was older and overweight was being yelled at to remove a bulky sweater which got caught on her bra undoing it and letting her breasts fall out, on and on. Media covers for a day and goes on to something else. TSA issues pr saying they are aware, sensitve to, working on the issue, blah blah giving the impression the problem will be fixed until it's forgotten.

There has not been any real leadership for pax in the movement against the TSA. Two organized groups did fight the TSA, pilots and flight attendants, both won.

IIRC, this was a reporter who got caught in the ordinary course.

I'm talking about an investigative reporter, preferably from Fox which has the most-watched news programs, who would set herself up to be caught by TSA, who would go through several different checkpoints under several different scenarios and then report on what she experienced.

Absolutely, 100% yes!!^

I'm female, on the small side (5'3" on a good day), always travel alone for work and there is no way in hell they would get me in a private room. I'll repeat, NO WAY.

I think I need to make something clearer when I was referring to a secondary private room screening. Yes when the public patdown is done for whatever reason and the machine they test the gloves with gives off a positive hit. That will get you taken to a private room for a more extensive patdown. If they clear you then after that you are free to go. In that situation yes there have been rogue agents going to far and abusing the passengers in that situation by squeezing to hard, putting hands inside of underwear, causing the passenger to be covered in urine, etc.

But here is what I was referring to in my other post.

What happens to the passenger in the private room screening who gets patted down and the gloves again test postive. The gloves are changed and a third patdown is given and again there is another positive hit with the gloves test.

Sometimes those machines can keep giving off a false positives because of some unknown factor.

But if a passenger keeps getting a positive hit after each patdown they aren't going to just let them go.

It was hinted at by certain agents that it is that situation where there is a gray area when it comes to a positive hit during the secondary private room screening that can't be resolved with a patdown. They made it sound sinister as to what would be done to the passenger in that situation.

Which makes me wonder is the passenger who keeps getting a positive hit, that can't be resolved with a patdown, just turned over to law enforcement to be processed? or has TSA/DHS put a rule in place where they have the authority to actually detain the passenger for hours of questioning and to order the passenger to be given a more thorough search that includes a customs style type of search which consist of xrays, a real strip search, a visual inspection of the body cavities, taken to a medical facility for a real physical cavity search and a monitored bowel movement?

I just find it hard to believe that TSA/DHS is going to turn a passenger over to regular Law Enforcement officers if they think that passenger is a terrorist carrying some type of explosive on their body.

I just wonder if there are secret rules in place that allow a search of a passenger to go that far.

I'm sure there have been instances of this. Someone who did gardening, wearing the wrong type of moisturizer or having been to a shooting range wouod give positive results that would stay positive. The woman pictured at the checkpoint in her underwear had her wheeelchair test positive was given some addtional screening and sent home, told to came back next day. Don't believe she ever said what additional screening involved but she did give news interviews from her home once she got back and I'm sure she would have not have kept quite if she felt more abused than usual. However I'm sure that there are some predator TSA who would take advantage if an attractive female were involved.his could be what happened to woman that NH State Rep claimed was given cavity search with fingers in cavities. (Although he claimed no reason was given to her why she was taken to private room and traeted this way.)

The OP is insinuating that it was TSA and not US Customs and Border Protection officers. There really is not enough information to determine if either agency was involved since it was a third party anecdotal story. US Customs and Border Protection as a very clear policy that dictates under what circumstances that type of search would be conducted. Under that policy the search would not be conducted at the Port, it would be conducted at a medical facility by medical personnel. It also would only be conducted under very rare circumstances as there are other options that quite frankly are much easier to do and are much less invasive.

FB