jbcarioca

Whether some of these opinions are fairly wild or not, the fact remains that airline security has been quite excellent without such actions. Further we all know they do not grope the cargo, or even look at most of it, nor to they make comprehensive examination of the luggage. This groping is, at absolute minimum, a major embarrasment. I personally reject any assertion that there is justification for it.

Thus, I favor reporting every groping, not just children, as sexual harrasment. In my life I have never been touched by a stranger in that way, nor have I any intention of idly submitting to it. I will file complaints should it happen to me. It has not, although I have seen it.

JSFox

Excellent point. A study we did a few years ago on alcohol & drug use among teens indicated a similar trend in prohibition laws having no real impact on lowering use, but the laws and enforcement did significantly heighten their distrust of government and in particular, law enforcement. I think you're also spot on with it causing some to choose careers that avoid travel. Somewhat off topic, but it'll be interesting to see what impact this does have on travel and if we see an upsurge in videoconferencing instead.

sobetraveler

Desensitization to nudity, I think would be a good thing... comfort with others seeing one's body naked, a lack of embarassment or shame, would be a good thing in America which is especially prudish and morally judgmental about nudity, to the point where a woman breastfeeding in public in the wrong State could be labeled a sex offender...

That said, I think the issue here is about personal choice, and about the freedom to move around this country without our liberties and rights being taken away...

I'm more concerned about the radiation dose to the skin than I am someone seeing me naked. I'd rather strip, in public, than be radiated OR touched.

I am afraid that the "feel-ups" by TSA are going to effect children negatively; it took me many years to get over childhood sexual experiences that always begin against your will by someone with power or authority over you...

This is not about playing doctor, this is about adults touching children's genitalia in public against their wishes just so that they can take an airplane ride...

For a child, how is that different than a teacher touching their privates so that they can have extra time at recess or something?

Hopefully parents in this country will soon be outraged and put a stop to this, otherwise we will grow up with a new generation of citizens, some with emotional issues, and others who will have a hatred towards our government...

JSFox

Sobe, good post.

There's a difference in nudity in Europe and nudity in the U.S. It's far more eroticized here. That may be one reason we have 3 times as many rapes per capita as Europe and why we have a sexting issue here that is almost non-existent in Europe. This isn't the way to desensitize people to it though (and I think you were getting at that). It's one thing if we were more open about allowing nudity on portions of beaches and parks and people could choose to be it or see it, it's another when it's forced.

jcwoman

Exactly, JSfox. The only way to teach people that nudity isn't a shameful thing is to practice it in a totally safe, open, non-sexual, non-threatening environment. Having your picture taken discreetly and viewed in a back room by some stranger is not any of those things.

Sobe's comment made me cringe:
"This is not about playing doctor, this is about adults touching children's genitalia in public against their wishes just so that they can take an airplane ride...

For a child, how is that different than a teacher touching their privates so that they can have extra time at recess or something?"

because it's absolutely dead on. Touching for a reward is touching for a reward, right? Beyond insidious.

lostinthewash

I have been anti-NoS from the moment I heard of them, and anti-grope since I experience what it actually was, and am actively educating my (teenage) children. But I have never thought about that parallel. I agree - to a young child - is there a real difference? Except maybe mommy or daddy is standing there saying it's okay? Would that child think "mommy and daddy said it was okay for the nice man in the blue shirt, so this must be okay too"?

I am flying with my teenaged children into the US in a couple of weeks and will be in full-on mama bear mode. At least with teenagers I have been able to have an educated discusion about what's involved and what everyone's options are (up to and including walking away) ... not so much with toddlers.

bearaway

Totally wild speculation.

1) Porn is a keystroke away unless parents are enclosing their children in a golden cage (it happens), it sure is a hell easier to get porn en-mass anonymously than it was 20 years ago.

2) As mentioned by other posters, in Europe nudity is not that taboo even though there is more fake puritanism compares to years ago. A lot of scenes on TV have frontal nudity, magazines (especially women's health/fashion magazines) do have naked bodies, tv advertising in france for example it is fairly common to have a suggestive naked woman advertising bio/diet yogourts or shampoo/bath products (I also remember the milk advertising in press and tv years ago which was very suggestive in other ways with milk dripping from the lips of young women) and last but not least, topless is well accepted in many countries.

Related to 1), parents that try to have their children live in a golden cage may have a shock if they knew what their children are up to behind their back. (or if they knew what they have suffered and due to this 'strict' education are not able to even tell their unsuspecting parents, while some clues make it totally obvious to outsiders that are somewhat familiar with the situation).

lostinthewash

This made me laugh becuase it is SO true.
I was nosing around the home computer one day and discovered that the internet history had been cleaned. Really !! Only one reason for that! (teenaged children (son) in the house). Amazing how one sibling will rat out the other ... but only if you're paying attention!! Love them dearly, but really ... can't trust them.

But ... I will opt them out of an NoS ... because I don't trust this digital age, and (my) teenagers are really sensitive to body images.

CavePearl

Sadly, many of the late teen and twenty-something young women I am acquainted with want to go through the NoS! I try to educate them, but they jokingly call me a "prude." They see no harm in it. Just like they see no harm in tanning beds.

lostinthewash

Fortunately not true for all teens. When I showed my teenage daughter the only available pics of NoS images, she was truly disturbed. As much as parents of teens think they have no influence, really, they do. And everything you say or do registers, on some level. They may not 'fess up to it now, but they process the info. Keep on telling them, even if you feel like you're telling a concrete wall. You are educating.

aviators99

I had to explain this all to my 9 year old on Friday, before we flew. It was most unpleasant, and made her very anxious.

It turned out that we were able to go through a line that had the AIT disabled, but the damage has already been done.

Loren Pechtel

Agreed.

Exactly. I don't give a hoot about the image the scanner sees. I care about the radiation that produced it. However, I do realize that some people are sensitive about such matters.

Yeah--this goes against the standard anti-abuse training and thus it sounds like a very bad idea.

bluenotesro

It's totally unacceptable for anyone other than a doctor or parent to touch a child. Period. It's criminal behaviour and it needs to be stopped.

LuvAirFrance

Getting used to the idea of perversion as "normal". Sure glad to see our government leading the charge on perversion. Pretty soon perverts will be mainstreamed.

sobetraveler

I cringe too at the thought that child molesting, whether it be by adults or older children, will now begin with a TSA game...

"Let's play travel... you be the traveler and I'll be TSA."

These TSA idiots need to remember that the human body doesn't rationalize...

If a child is touched in or near the genitals there will be a physiological response...

I learned that as a kid being molested.

Even if you don't want to be touched, touching can produce sensations that feel good, skin produces pleasure or pain depending on how you are touched...

If that experience isn't with someone you know and trust (like a doctor or a parent, where context feels safe to a child), then the mind can take those sensations and turn them into something traumatic, or simply leaves traces of a semi-sexual or sexual experience that in turn affects your behavior the rest of your life until you dismantle the effects of the experience.

And it varies on the individual...

Maybe 10 teenagers can go through the pat-down, maybe 3 can blow it off in the moment as stupid and fully process it, maybe 3 will be mildly embarassed and take several days to get over it but won't want to repeat it, but maybe the other 4 will be downright ashamed and feel invaded and not recover...

Some of us are easily victimized, and some of us our stronger.

TSA suggests they may need to become more sensitive to those who are sexual abuse victims, well what about THEIR victims?