KevinDTW

I'm sure this is exactly why a lot of TSA nonsense goes unreported/unchallenged.

Himeno

Been through TSA a few times this trip. Have approached person blocking the WTMD to say I can't lift and hold up my arms after placing stuff on xray belt.

BOS B LAA: Through WTMD, waited 7ish minutes for the "assist" to come. Treated to full opt out patdown.
LAS T3 C/D gates: Through WTMD, hand swabs. All done within 2 minutes.
LAX T4 precheck/priority lanes: Through WTMD, one of the 2 manning the body scanner already waiting with ETD swab for hands. Through in a minute.
JFK T8: Through WTMD, called over assist. Carry on moved over to unused lane, then start getting full opt out pat down. Had done collar and started on arms when the person who had been at the WTMD walks past and repeats "hands". Pat down stopped and hands swabbed.

JFK, just after morning peak. 2 lanes open. Precheck closed. Lines quickly backing up to TDCs. I counted at least 8 TSOs standing around talking to the TDCs.
They could have opened another lane and had the lines cleared in 5 minutes instead of 15.

tanja

ATTITUDE !

Since when cant people have feelings/opinions and/or attitude that is silent?
What a power trip.

Himeno

DCA last night, told them I couldn't hold my arms up. They did it right - through the WTMD and hand ETD.

DCA AA check in screwed me over and refused to check me through, so I had to deal with JFK TSA again this morning.
1 lane open, start of morning peak.
Told the person blocking the MD that I couldn't hold my arms up. He calls for an opt out. I repeat it to him and another TSO. He maintains that I had said opt out and continues with the lie when a superviser comes over to see what's going on 5 minutes later.
End up getting a full rub down from a lead. Didn't do the whole speech and only lightly bushed past the bad shoulder.

Gigantor

In December 2012, I was scheduled to fly from EWR -> ITH on United Express. Upon reaching the Nude-O-Scope, I requested an opt-out.

I was brought to an area with a metal frame which acted as a holder for curtains to surround me along with a TSA worker.

I showed the TSA worker my Swiss passport and told him that I expected to be touched in a respectful manner and that he was only to touch me where it would be deemed appropriate.

His response to me: "Don't worry. We only perform those other kind of searches on Americans."

The absolute truth...

chollie

I don't get told this as often any more (although I am treated the same). PHX T2 still insists that physical limitations = opt out.

So much so, they always tell a wheelchair-bound family member that she's an 'opt out' because she can't get out of her chair and walk and stand in the NoS.

Himeno

I don't understand how the same checkpoint 4 days apart at similar times with the same staff (although in different positions) can do this so differently.

If this was almost any checkpoint outside the US there wouldn't be all these issues.

chollie

(bolding mine)

TSA refuses to consider the possibility that allowing each FSD and even each screener to make up the rules as they go along is not 'consistent inconsistency' that catches the bad guys off-guard, it's just confusion and aggravation for everyone involved (but mostly the pax, of course, because it's their belongings that are confiscated and their bodies that are groped and they are the ones being barked at).

I see more inconsistency transiting the same checkpoint month after month than I do transiting checkpoints in multiple countries. The unpredictability is one of the reasons the lines are so long and move so slowly in the US.

We send privilged TSA staff to 'nice' airports (at taxpayer's expense, of course) to advise them on how to conduct security. Perhaps their time would be better spent asking if there's something the TSA could learn from other countries' security processes.

The rest of the world manages without the ID checks, generally without shoe removal, and without bag searches routinely conducted out of the pax's sight. Why can't we do the same?

Re: shoe removal. Is everyone else in the world really taking a huge risk by not screening shoes? If the risk is that big, why hasn't the US insisted that no plane can flyover or land in the US without meeting US shoe screening standards? Or..are they all using technology that is so superior to ours that they don't need pax to remove shoes? Surely no one has better (or more expensive) technology at the checkpoints than we do.

And when is the last time your opt-out grope included checking the soles of your feet and between your toes to make sure you don't have contraband that even the NoS won't detect?

Himeno

Not to mention that the "opt out grope" does a better job then the NoS. The pat down detects items on your side. The NoS doesn't.

DaveBlaine

'cuz 'Merica!

That's why.

And yes, I agree. The UK and the last couple countries I've been to in Europe didn't play security theater/theatre. Seems to work for them and they're not spending billions on federal employees either.

jkhuggins

Supporters of TSA will say that the rest of the world doesn't face the same threats that the US does. The 9/11 attacks happened in the US. The underwear bomber was heading to the US. The shoe bomber was heading to the US.

Supporters of TSA will also point out that security procedures are not uniform world-wide. Security procedures dealing with Israeli airlines have been discussed in these forums at great length; Israel claims justification for such unique procedures because of the unique threats they face.

Opponents of TSA will point out that if the US didn't act like such an @#$! towards the rest of the world, perhaps the US wouldn't face these unique threats.

And then we'll spend the next several pages of this thread debating whether or not the US is "unique" in a good way, or "unique" in a bad way, or not "unique" at all ... and TSA will have won the argument, because we won't be talking about whether the effectiveness of these procedures are worth the costs (both tangible and intangible). Instead, we'll end up debating matters which ultimately don't matter.

Ah, but this is the Internet. My mistake. Carry on, everyone.

sethb

I just say "My doctor said to opt out." They've never even tried to argue with that one.

RadioGirl

Yes, of course they will say that. But given the sad events of this week, that argument is increasingly inaccurate.

KDS

ATL "F Concourse International Arrival Domestic Connection" checkpoint....Today.

No PreCheck or airline elite lanes here. Everyone gets the same low-grade treatment.

Opted out of the MMW as usual. Stood where I could see my items on the belt -- wasn't quite where the TSO guarding the WTMD wanted me to stand, but I ignored him.

"Male assist" came in a few minutes. Escorted me to the area for the patdown. Wanted to know if I'd done this before; I said "hundreds of times". So he says he'll start the patdown and give me his "spiel" while doing the patdown. I told him I don't need to hear the spiel; he says he has to do it. I again said I don't need to hear it.

Asked if I have sensitive areas; I said, "my genitals." Asked if I had medical devices, and I said, "yes, intraocular lens in my right eye".

He started the patdown, and despite my request to not hear the "explanation", he "explained" each step as he was doing it. As he got ready to do the "inner thigh" thing, he asked me to extend (?!?!?) my legs; I assumed he meant he wanted a wider stance, so I moved my feet about 2 millmeters further apart. He didn't object and then said he'd go up till he met resistance. I said, there is no resistance, those are my genitals. He actually didn't go that high.

Then he switched to the front. When he got to the waistband, he did the "inner" part. Then he ran the front of his hand across the outer part of the waistband. However, his palm was a little lower than my waitband, and actually ran across the top of my groin area, contacting my genitals. I stopped him and complained that he'd gotten to my soft spots and that that was not allowed. He apparently didn't like my response, so he called out for a supervisor. When none came, he walked away to get a supervisor, leaving me standing there alone. (This apparently is not a good thing for a TSO to do, as the pax then pays a price.)

A female supervisor came over, introduced herself by name, and asked me how I'm doing. I said, not well. The TSO told her I objected to the patdown. I told her, no, what I said was that he touched a soft spot on my body when doing the waistband check, and then I said, "he touched the top of my penis, and that is not allowed". She seemed a bit surprised, but then I told her I don't want to be touched there and we can finish the patdown if he will stay away from there.

Then the fun. She tells the TSO that he has to start all over from the beginning. When I objected, I was told that I could have secreted an item from my groin area to my chest area while the TSO was away. I scoffed at her, and said I did not move while he was gone and I didn't do that. She insisted that this was protocol; I said, "yeah, cause I must be dangerous when I fly a hundred times a year."

So the TSO begins again. While he's doing the "clearing" of my back area, she calls another TSO over and asks him to rescan all my items through the X-ray machine. I asked why; she said I could have hidden something in my bags while the TSO was away. I shook my head, and said, "no, you're not taking my items from out of my sight; I will accompany them if you're going to punish me by rescanning them."

The TSO meanwhile has moved back to the front and is again screening my waistband. When he does the "outer" waistband rub, he again makes contact with my groin, just as before. And again, I complained about it. Note he did this while the supervisor was there. She asked me what was wrong, and I said he just rubbed my penis again, and that is not allowed. She looked like she wasn't sure what to say, so I said, "get this over with; I did not not come here to be groped." The TSO finished the leg patdown and rubbed my feet three times.

ETD scan came back as "not dangerous"; I told the supervisor "I could have told you that if you'd listen."

Then she and the TSO carried my items to the X-ray machine, and I followed to keep an eye on the items. After they were placed on the belt, she and the TSO left. I remained to watch the items. However, the TSO guarding the WTMD then told me to leave the area and go to the end of the conveyor line. I refused because my items were not yet inside the X-ray scanner housing. He said, yes they are in the machine cause they're on the belt. I again refused and said I would leave when my items were inside the machine. We did this back and forth four more times until my items actually were inside the machine. Then he made a snarky comment about "can you see your items now? No, you can't cause they're in the machine." I said "yes, now they are" and then I walked away.

(Glanced at the other pax in line for the MMW while this exchange went on; some seemed nervous about the situation.)

Finally got my items and redressed for social interactions in the terminal. Just another day of being kept "safe".

ou81two

Ha, that's pretty funny actually. ^

Are you even a male? I mean, the penis hangs down when flaccid. Putting your hand inside of a waistband would mean the guy would need to have his hand pretty much all of the way down in there to the wrist. I mean, I'm not saying your post is false, but I I'm guessing that if I posted this on a gay male forum they'd probably say that it was bs.

Seriously, I've done probably 200 of these screenings. Never had an issue. Ever. I supposed if you go in there angry and emotional and try to make an issue out of things you won't succeed.

The only drama I've had in there is when I've done something to force others to get screened. Occasionally, I'll get one of the tin foil hat wearing types in the line with me. Then when I opt out, if I can touch them in secondary I'll pat them on the shoulder and say hey, have a great day. Then the TSA per policy has to pat them down too. It's great. Happened three times so far. 2/3 of getting pat downs. For one, they didn't have a ton of people there, so the guy had to wait. So pissed off. Man it was hard to keep a straight face.