sethb

It often is; however, I didn't actually see any spot in the transcript where a police officer asked him to identify himself verbally.

ehasbrouck

“Freedom Flyer” Phil Mocek to go on trial June 14th in Albuquerque

FAQ: State of New Mexico v. Phillip Mocek (PDF)

doober

It's interesting to note that, AFAIK, Phil has not yet received a civil fine for interfering with the screening process. Perhaps TSA is waiting for the outcome of the trial, as happened with the applesauce incident, before fining him.

Or is TSA required (not that they would pay attention) to wait until the "criminal" case has been completed before hitting him with a fine?

Boggie Dog

I'm curious, TSA seems to require ID or a person is subjected to an invasive interview but the charges against Phil seem to be local issues and do not address TSA requiring ID.

Am I missing something here or will TSA skate out of this completely and the TSA ID issues will go unanswered?

pmocek

Assuming that by "require ID" you meant "require the presentation by passengers of identity credentials as a condition of passing the TSA checkpoint." everything I've read indicates that there is no such requirement. When there's an alternative, it's not a requirement. The options seem to be: A) frisked, luggage thoroughly searched by hand, interrogated, and required to cooperate with TSA staff, or B) credentials shown, metal detector walked through, luggage X-rayed.


Trial date: Monday, June 14, 2010, 9:30 a.m.
Court: Bernalillo County Metropolitan Court
Case number: CR 25737/09 (For details, go to the court's search page, complete the CAPTCHA, then search for criminal case 2573709)
Judge: Julie N. Altwies
Defense attorneys: Nancy Hollander, Molly Schmidt-Nowara
Charges:

1. New Mexico Revised Code 30-20-1: Disorderly conduct
2. Albuquerque Code of Ordinances 12-2-16: Concealing identity with intent to obstruct
3. Albuquerque Code of Ordinances 12-2-19: Resisting, obstructing, or refusing to obey a lawful order of a police officer
4. Albuquerque Code of Ordinances 12-2-3: Criminal trespass

Boggie Dog

As I recall TSA has said that if you have ID on your person you have to show it. If no ID on your person then the other process. Have they backed off that position?

Who did you conceal your identity from according to the complaint? TSA or some other entity?

pmocek

I've never heard or read that. See this post for a run-down of what I know about related policies.

Please read the complaint (PDF; 5.8 MB) and judge for yourself.

Boggie Dog

Do you think this will challenge having to show TSA ID?

Edit to add: The police refer to you as an offender. Had they already passed judgement on your actions?
Are you Guilty until proven Innocent in New Mexico? I think I would have that discussion with the attorney.

[QUOTE]http://blog.tsa.gov/2008/06/new-id-r...-tomorrow.html


"What if you forget your ID? Is your vacation ruined? Are you going to miss your meeting? Are you going to miss the Elvis Costello show this weekend at the Glasgow Royal Concert Hall? Not at all… If you simply state you forgot your ID, we will work with you to verify your ID, you may undergo some additional screening and will be permitted to fly.

On the other hand, if you do not cooperate and state that you're not willing to show us your ID, you will not be permitted to fly."

bdschobel

Albuquerque really is an ID-crazy place. I checked in to the Albuquerque Marriott last night and, for the first time in many stays, was asked for ID. I looked at the front-desk clerk quizzically and asked why he needed it. He said that he needed to verify my identity because I was using a VISA card. Well, that's ridiculous, of course, and undoubtedly violates VISA's merchant agreement with the hotel -- and I said so. He called a manager and asked her to "come out to the front desk right away because a guest is refusing to show his ID."

A manager came out, and we had a brief repeat of the previous conversation. She thought for a moment, then told the guy to check me in. So far, so good, right? Well, we weren't done. When the manager turned to take care of another guest waiting in line, the guy proceeded to lecture me about how "happy" he is to show his ID because that protects him from identity theft! Uh-huh. I just looked at him, shook my head, and said, "Oh, the younger generation has so much to learn." That was the end of this strange little episode.

I have no idea how Phil will get an open-minded jury here!

Bruce

SirFlysALot

Yeah because before you showed them your ID they had no idea of your address, birth date, drivers license and Social Security Numbers. Sounds like a good plan to me! They could never steal your identity with that information!

FliesWay2Much

Although I agree with you 100%, between this guy's very common logic and what people are willing to put on social networking sites, "privacy" as I think we both define it is gone forever.

Superguy

I've actually been getting that a lot at Hilton properties lately. Got it at the DoubleTree near RIC and the HGI at RDU.

I need to start asking about why they're asking for it.

bocastephen

This is standard practice at every Starwood property worldwide - you'd tire yourself arguing the point at every check-in. Generally I just keep the license in my hand and they quickly glance at the name and that's it.

I could lecture them ad nauseum, but they would just ask the next guest for ID as if nothing happened.

Last night was annoying as the Westin clerk took the license and kept staring at the reservation for a long time - he was someone of a dimwit anyway, so I didn't push the matter but he was perplexed that my res name showed only my initials and my license has my full name - it wasn't as much thinking he had the 'big catch' as being completely confused.

I, however, am completely confused about how ID = Security and how glancing at someone's ID apparently 'clears' that person for access to gated communities, cashing out at Walmart, checking into a hotel, visiting your doctor, clearing airport security or a host of other places and situations where ID is requested.

Does the absence of, or refusal to provide ID make someone a danger automatically?

N1120A

Completely non-applicable. Phil Mocek was not reasonably suspected to be the perpetrator of a crime the police were investigating. Hiibel is actually a very narrow holding.

cparekh

Remember, the hotel clerk is not a law-enforcement officer of any sort. It is perfectly fine to say to them that I don't have my ID, or I forgot it, but can I use my CREDIT CARD, which has my name on it?

Chances are, once you plunk down some plastic, they aren't really going to care about their SOP of checking your DL.