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I called crs of Sapphire department. They told me:
1 point/1 dollar
2 points/1 dollar airfare
up to 10 points/ 1 dollar chase plus online store
When you get 50000 points, they will offer additional 10000 points.

TAHKUCT

And what number did you call?

As far as I understand this product is not even available for anybody.

Happy

Are you sure the 3% remains?

Long time ago they wanted me to upgrade it to Signature but I turned it down because Signature is a "non-reporting" card, meaning its credit line would not be reported due to it is so-called "no spending limit" card. I have way too many such no spending limit card and really need a couple of reporting cards to give a non-distorting picture on the utilization ratio. The Freedom and Citi's Diamond are kept for such purpose much more so than the earning ability. (I also turned down Citi's offer to upgrade the Diamond to World Master but kept it as Platinum Master.)

Happy

Please post whether you suceed in convincing Citi to waive the annual fee. AFAIK, the 2nd year you still earn the 3-5% but of course there is the hefty annual fee. My plan is to cancel and reapply the same card.
This is the 2nd Plat Amex in the household. We never use the Priority Club benefit (all international travels are in business class anyway), nor the Credit Monitor benefit (dont have the need), and really dont feel we miss anything after 2 years we haven't used the entitlements. Therefore, to us the annual fee does not worth it.

skofarrell

Really? I still think "educated FTers" would be leveraging their Starwood Amex card, or other airline cards that can get them free first/business class upgrades or tickets. Depending on the cost of the coach ticket, the return on an upgrade to business can be as high as 15-20% (or more). Free tickets, well...

Much higher return per $ spent that any 2% cash back card. Are you still sticking with Schwab?

freeflyin

I sent a secure message to Chase to opt out.. I also asked them to confirm that the terms,including the 3% would remain.They responded that all original terms would stay as is.

I much prefer emailing them,as I then have responses in writing if I encounter a problem later.

Happy

Agree on the secured emails. I use that feature all the time with both Chase and Citi.

Happy

Sadly, you demonstrate that you still dont even understand how the game is played.

Spending gets the real cash back in the pocket. The bulk of miles are earned thru signed up bonuses with virtually 0 cost. So the return is what? Infinitive, since the devider is 0? @:-)

For education purposes as one last try, we have redeemed a total of 500K AA miles in 2008. We will leave on a Circle Pacific trip covering 12 cities flying AA QF BA CX JL in J starting next week. The equivalent pay ticket (with more restriction in minimum stays than the reward ticket) would cost you $11,200 before tax and fee, when originating from US and purchased in US. ^^

http://www.oneworld.com/ow/air-trave...e-pacific-fare

This redemption actually is NOT the best value achieved from miles because Oneworld tickets are priced much cheaper than a point to point r/t ticket. For 5K less miles, we could do a trip just to Australia on QF and nothing else at a cost of $17,600 if purchased. Therefore, it is not just how much "value" you look at, it is what kind of trips you choose to do - the Educated FTers would use the miles to visit the most places by redeemed their miles smartly. Same concept applies on how to accumulate the miles. @:-)

Incidentally, the Schwab card is more for the 0% Forex fee feature than the 2% cash rebate. In this trip there are 9 countries involved with 9 different currencies. Using CC whenever possible would greatly simplify things (unlike you can use Euro in Euro zone for many countries). 0% Forex fee therefore becomes an excellent feature with the 2% rebate a nice bonus.

If you still dont see the light, then it would not be my loss.

For further illustration, as of now we have a balance of $5,600 airline credits spread among AA, UA & CO, on the very missed old-time TYP value, with less than $1000 of such being earned thru spending. That is what, 560% return?

May be you choose to ignore the Sticky of this forum all along? When people redeemed their TYPs and got back multi-thousands worth airline cash? I was actually quite surprised some folks have amassed such high balances in their TYP accounts. Actually there were ways, may still have ways, to amass large amount with, again, virtually 0 cost if you dont count the efforts involved.

Among friends I know, I am the one who made the LEAST from working the system but talked the most on FT. Actually my friends were not pleased at all when I tried to pass along some knowledge to help others who may benefit from such. I just feel that I learned a lot from FT and would like to pay back.

skofarrell

I'm lost now. You're jumping from the 500K in AA miles you've banked to the dead TYP deal. You're mentioning free Credit Card bonuses, but what does that have to do with Schwab being first in your wallet in May 2009?

I never participated in Credit Card churning, and given the way the economy is going it is not going to be that easy to churn cards in the future (unless you don't care about your FICO and want to face Adverse Action with these skittish banks). Plus, I dont like to be tied to one particular airline. I also have a life and don't have the 32-40 months it would take to churn 16-20 Citi bonues get that free 500K in AA miles.

Here's my real life example:

$40K in spend in the USA. I wanted to go with my wife to Istanbul (last March). She was on a paid "J" fare. I fly about 25-40K miles in a year, almost all domestically.

On my Starwood Card, $40K in Spend gives me 50K miles to be used on most major carriers.

Where I live Delta is very popular. Its 50K miles to upgrade a R/T to IST in Business. "M" fare (cheapest upgradable on Delta) was $1700. Discounted Business was $4500. Savings was $2800. I achieved your vaunted 7 cents per $ spent return. This is a live deal and can be done again.

With a Schwab card, I would have had $800 cash in my Schwab account. Nothing to sneeze at, but not $2800 in savings.

50K in Delta miles could have gotten me a totally free coach ticket, $950 for non refundable coach, still better than Schwab's $800.

(I used my Capital One card the entire time I was there, no forex.)

Please tell me, what am I missing?

My point here is that "one size does not fit all". If you fly a lot and have boatloads of miles, the $800 from Schwab might look pretty good. If you don't fly a lot (but spend a lot), Starpoints are better. The TYP deal was great while it lasted, but people overused it and it died.

Even though I've been here for 8 years, I want to be an Educated FTer!

gv111

I can attest to that. I have a large airline credit and I just happen to came across the FT TY devaluation thread by chance because of a reference on Fatwallet. Before that I didn't use to venture on FT. Many thanks to "Happy" and all other individuals who helped me make the best use of my points. I just wished I was able to do one more redemption .

Happy

It completely depends on your own credit profiles with each issuer, regarding flipping cards. FICO is NOT the end-all, be-all measure for the issuers evaluating whether they extend credit to you or not. When we talk about YMMV - this is TRULY YMMV based on real life experiences and posts here and else where.

I can tell you, an identical credit profile based on the credit reports can yield very different results from different banks. Having an ongoing history with an issuer certainly helps, because you are not an unknown identity to them. Else, you are just a number which their risk-assessment software would spill out whether you are worthy for them to take the risk or not.

Needless to say, there are certain premises for taking advantages of banks offers - not just for the bonuses, but the 0% balance transfers, and other incentives. (I never do any balance transfer, it is just too high maintenance to me, but I have friends who have earned several grands of interests on the "free" money the banks offered thru 0% 0 fee balance transfer. Of course such lucrative activities are not possible any more in current climate.)

For the very basics:

You should have no immediate needs for any kind of debts, i.e. you dont need a new mortgage, a new car loan, a new whatever type loan in the next 6 to 9 months.

You have an impeccable payment history to demonstrate you are financially responsible, such as you always pay in full your monthly card bills.

You are disciplined, dont overreach for your wants. (I stress this is being wants, not needs!)

To me, this really is just plain common sense. But judging by the statistics that roughly 50% of credit card holders have maintained a revolving balance on their cards, I guess some just dont have the disciplines to stay debt-free. In this case, they should NEVER go into this, but try to pay off their credit card debts FIRST!

There are a few on-going threads on the subj and if you do care to spend some time to read them, especially read posts from Candymanjim, just a suggestion, 'cause this would be the EASIEST and QUICKEST way for you to see, it does NOT take 32 to 40 months to receive the miles. There is no need to repeat here, just take your time to read and learn.

Yes, everyone has experienced some credit line cuts in this economy, including us. The irony of such is, for people like us, who never use more than 5 to 10% of available lines, such cuts mean nothing but an annoyance when the letter arrived. Unfortunately, for some who often reach to the upper 60% of their available lines, such cuts could be quite damaging. Again, this would be very YMMV situation. Each individual has to evaluate his / her own situation and decides what is better for himself / herself. There is no one-size fits all type of rules, really.

Once you evaluate your own situation in a no-cheat manner, then you should know if you are comfortable in taking advantage of the bonuses that are out there.

I hope the above would be helpful to you.

skofarrell

Thanks for trying to help, but I've always participated in the card game (up until Q3 of last year anyway ) and am not interested in continuing anymore.

The party is over. Flipping a Citi Card is now limited to 60 days, and business cards seem to be included now. Amex is running scared, limiting people to 2 cards, and even when they open an account, the limit is paltry. Chase and BofA are not far behind Amex. Sadly, there's no one else left to "game".

Don't kid yourself. Applying for new cards every 60 days will wreak havoc on your report. Spend some time on creditboards.com and see what issuers are doing to people with lots of new accounts and inquires on their files these days. Ratejacking, or worse: closing. They are looking for any excuse.

You can't get miles or bonuses for balance transfers, and with interest rates hovering at 2 pct (and below), the 3-4% transaction fee makes even a 0% BT a bad deal.

You haven't answered my question. Why Schwab instead of Starwood?

Happy

You are contradicting yourself - in one post you said you "I never participated in credit card churning", in another post you said "but I've always participated in the card game (up until Q3 of last year anyway ) and am not interested in continuing anymore."

So exactly which statement you are telling the truth?

Didn't I already answer your question, if you even pay attention reading my post?

Schwab card has 0% forex fee, and the 2% rebate is a nice added bonus. I dont care for Cap One. When the old Schwab card did away its 0% forex fee about 2 years ago, I switched to cash when travel overseas. Just so happened most places we went (Australia and New Zealand, European countries, Canada) there are member bank of Bank of America Global ATM Network, so there is no fee on withdrawal and the exchange rates generally are very competitive. On top of that we generally only deal with maximum 2 currencies. With this upcoming trip, cash is not very practical when there are 9 different currencies to deal with. Though with Fidelity's mySmartCash, there again is no withdrawal fee with competitive rates.

Since we dont need spending to earn miles, why use SPG AMEX, when the rebate rate is only 1.25% only when you exchange it to airline miles? Besides, AMEX is far less acceptable than Visa or MC. In fact, in many Asian countries, many merchants only accept Visa. Even in our town, merchants are dropping AMEX. The ethnic Vietnamese grocer stopped taking AMEX 6 months ago. Ditto our favorite Chinese restaurant. Heck, AT&T here would not even accept AMEX for paying online! Why should I carry a card that on top of not paying me the highest, but is getting less and less accepted by merchants?

Who said one can get miles from balance transfer? Didn't I say the 0% 0 fee goodies is no more in current climate? I mentioned the 0% BT and 0 fee just to show such offers were out there for grab but NOT everyone is able to grab it, because not everyone has the same credit profile to receive such offers.

Regarding your fear or misperception of Credit Card, I feel it is a waste of time to continue the discussion. You simply cannot accept the FACT that banks do not treat each individual equally - what happens to others do not mean it would happen to you, or to me.

Right now, while the banks are cutting lines, we continue receiving 0% to 2.99% balance transfer or blank checks from both Citi and Chase, but of course there is the 3% fee. However, not too long ago, there is a guy who is looking for a Low Interest Rate balance transfer to cover his $10K+ outstanding balance and he is not able to find any. What does that tell you? It is YMMV. Some folks still are getting solicitations, but it is dry well for others.

Oh, I should also mention that while Citi did cut the line on my Prof card, by a huge % I may say, based on the fact that the utilization is less than 1%, it does not touch any of my other cards with them. I closed the old Professional card out of annoyance, but immediately turned around to get a new one. Guess what? The new Professional card not only gave me 15K TYP bonus, but also has 0% APR without any time frame. I am sure the 0% APR would be very sought after by some folks you found on the site you mentioned (never heard of the site and no interest to venture there.), it is a Blah to me.

While there are folks who are denied by Citi or only one card or whatever - have you read the post from Forextrader this morning? He reported he received both AAMC & AAMEX personal, as well as AA Business.

Isn't it enough to tell you that the door may be close to some, but it is still wide open to others? It cannot be clearer to show you the FACT that, the game is over for you, but is business as usual to others. Just so you or whom you associate with, dont seem to be able to do it any more, does not mean others are not able to do it.

Actually, the banks now need Good Accounts more than ever, to improve the mix in the overall credit pool.

Now, I would want to know, Did you, or Didn't you participate in churning credit card?

Based on the very contradictary statements you made, I would like to guess, it could very well be a freudian slip.

skofarrell

I never churned. If you'e really interested, I have 5 Citibank AA cards, 3 in my name, (Amex, MC, Business MC), 2 in my wife's. I have 4 UA cards, (again business and personal x2), 4 Northwest cards, Delta Amex, Marriott, Starwood, blah blah blah. All to get bonuses. I played the bonus game, but never canceled and reapplied, canceled and reapplied as some do here. I don't need the "education" on how to play the credit card game. I am not disputing the fact that people will successfully continue to churn, I'm choosing not to.

Back to Schwab vs Starwood: Again, in your circumstance, you or (your SO) must fly enough that you value the 2% rebates that Schwab offers more than the flexibility Starpoints offers. That does not fit my circumstance as I illustrated above. For anyone else reading this: you get 1.25 MILES per point on airline exchange, not a 1.25% rebate as Happy mentioned above. There's a big difference.

I recently got a 7% return on my Starwood Amex spend because I'm using it to fund international upgrades (and I'm happy with what I did). I could not have done this with 40K spend on a Schwab card. After all, that's why we are here right? Because we value miles and points?

One size does not fit all, and the educated FTer will look across all posts and decide for himself or herself what fits best.

I hope you have fun on your trip.

Happy

About SPG, you earn 1 SPG pt per spending, that is 1%. When you exchange 20K SPG pts for miles, some airlines, such as AA, you get a 5K bonus. So 20K SPG pts net you 25K AA miles.
25/20 = 1.25 - so $1 spent get you 1.25 miles, if this is not 1.25% then I dont know where you learn your math. Again, read carefully, this is what I said: "when the rebate rate is only 1.25% only when you exchange it to airline miles? Is reading and comprehend content correctly such a difficult task?

How you redeem said airline miles to actual flights - that is a derivative, and varies a lot depending on what you redeem. An AA's old 25K domestic (or the new one-way 12.5K) is equal to, or more than, DL's or NW's 50K. One time I read about a NW flyer on a Cruise board, that he never knows AA or UA 25K domestic is the norm. He thought it was 50K because that was all he could find when using NW miles. Miles are not valued equally, that is for sure!

Precisely there is no one rule that fits everyone. That is why I never pick on your posts, especially not something from irrevalent past, just so I could do the "Ah Hun, Didn't you say XXX card earns the most? Why you are for YYY card now?" That kind of mentality / attitude is childish.

Remember, it is you who made the effort (or should I say, took the trouble) to look up a post I made LAST YEAR, to poke about how I change my mind. Of course I would change my mind, when situation totally changed. He who does not change with new environment, is the one who be left behind!

If you are comfortable with what you are doing, satisfied with what you get, then why even bother to care for what others are doing, and want so much to compare score cards?

I never calculate how much exactly is the percentage of my return, for I only need to know they are in the triple digits or more. I am pretty happy that all our domestic travels were paid for in last 2 years, and will be paid for the next 2 years, by TYPs. All our international travels were, and will be, in J or F, paid by AA, UA & AS miles. So what is the percentage of my return? Do I really need to figure that out?

Personally, I feel DL program is the most devalued. The only useful part is its partnership with SQ. Unfortunately, since it is so difficult to get 2 premium seats on SQ, I tried my best to keep the DL/NW account balances low - the occasional strayed flights on DL / NW we found ourselves on, we credited the miles to our AS accounts.

As for the trip, right now, I wish we have not committed to the trip (a long one of 48 days!) with the H1N1 going around. At least I tried to tell myself that because we have prepaid 2/3 of the hotels when various chains had their 72 hours sales in Feb and Mar, we saved a bundle on the exchange rates. Since then, the foreign currencies have gone up anywhere between 18 to 25% against USD, and the Japanese Yen is heading back up to 95!
Then, consider the out of pocket for the air is only for taxes and fees at around $350+ per person for a 25K miles journey in J, I should not complain!