robyng

I've been redeeming miles on CO for 20+ years. I am probably not the most expert - but I am pretty good. I used to do a lot of insurance coverage work - and am used to doing tedious things . And I think the situation has changed a lot in the last few of years or so (it was fine to get a ticket with a CO partner when the partner was DL and my gateway to somewhere was ATL). Not so great when I am being routed way out of my way on current partners.

I think a lot of the problems I'm seeing now may be due in part to where I live.

It is better to get a ticket for 1.5X miles than to search for unavailable tickets at 1X miles.

And with all these CO miles being given away like popcorn in promos today - reckon it's not going to get any easier in the future. Robyn

Happy

You already realize your problem now - it is your location which is much closer to DL's fortress hub of ATL but far away from other airlines hubs. CO has higher miles level redemption with better availability too but the issue is CO does not fly the routes that you deem convenient from your home airport - that is the crux. CO on the other hand would be very convenient for folks live in NYC area because it has tons of flights from EWR. Or, for that matter, Houston is a good fit. Folks live in either Houston or Dallas would have easier lives when redeeming either CO or AA because the 2 cities are not that far apart - just a few hours drive and people are willing to go that distance if needed to be.

However if you insist on the convenience from your home airport, then them's the break.

No way CO miles are given out like candy in the form DL miles have been given out in the past few years via the double miles in every $ spent for the longest period on the AMEX cards when DL basically sold tons and tons and tons of miles to AMEX in order to get cash to tie it over during the hard time but at the end DL still filed bankruptcy. Ironically, of all the legacy airlines only AA has never filed a bankruptcy and tried to protect the work force's benefits - they are now under the heaviest burden of labor costs due to other airlines all nullified their pension plans and compensation contracts etc and greatly reduced their labor cost burden.

The CO miles you see given out are just the one-time sign up bonus, but the DL miles in the past were given out on the spending at 2x 3x rate for several years! Major difference if you do the math which surely not hard for you to do given your prior professional life.

mia

To make a meaningful comparison I think you would need to look at availability through Continental and Delta on the same dates.

To take the JAX-LHR example there should be one-stop service:

via ATL on DL
via DFW on AA
via DTW on DL
via EWR on CO
via IAD on UA
via MIA on AA
via MSP on DL
via ORD on AA or UA
via PHL on US

I based this on a list of nonstop destination from JAX published here, and my recollection of who flies non-stop to London from various markets. Accuracy not guaranteed .

Aeroplan should have access to flights operated by CO, UA, and US. You might try checking availablity for each segment separately to verify that their site is constructing the best connections.

Also, AA and B6 (JetBlue) have a partnership which might allow you to fly to BOS or JFK on JetBlue and then internationally on AA, but I do not know if this partnership extends to award redemptions.

Happy

The AA and B6 partnership is a work in progress so we are hopeful that eventually it would extend to award redemption in may be 2nd half of 2012?

robyng

Hi Dennis - I have done a lot of cross-searching - particularly on Wednesdays in January when we having a northeaster . I pretty much know the best flights to lots of places. But the good routings on the metal with lie flat seats just aren't there for the most part. Except on perhaps a day or two during a month - with no return flights available. Took a look at Aeroplan as well a day or so ago. Same result. Note that when I search - I search not only from JAX - but from major gateway cities. When we got BF reward tickets to Tokyo - they weren't available from JAX. "Bought" them EWR to Tokyo and paid for relatively cheap flights from JAX to EWR out of pocket.

If we have the energy next year - I would like to go to China - especially now that the new high speed rail between Shanghai and Beijing has opened (article about it in the WSJ this week). I will see what's available in terms of getting there later this year. Finland and Sweden are still on my to-do list - but not until they get some luxury hotels (they currently have 3 star properties at 5 star prices).

Heck - worse comes to worse - I'll pay for the tickets. We've been saving money for our older years forever - and I think we've reached them .

FWIW - your routes are pretty accurate. But why would we fly through places like Dallas or Minneapolis to go to London? Kind of have to laugh at this. Because when we flew to Tokyo - I thought the easiest/shortest would be due west through LAX. Didn't know the polar route through EWR would be a whole lot shorter. I guess I - like a lot of people - am geography impaired. Robyn

robyng

That is not entirely correct. I often do searches out of EWR instead of JAX - because the JAX/EWR flights are usually pretty cheap - and on 2/1 Embraers. Robyn

Happy

Dont know your situation but if I am to redeem CO awards from EWR to whatever International locations, the portion of FLL or MIA to EWR is part of the award. There is no need to pay to get to EWR. I prefer mainline over CRJs.

Plenty of folks would fly indirect routes to their desired destinations on award tickets due to availability. Some folks actually deliberately seek for indirect routing such as SFO-JFK-HKG on CX F or J - the routing is allowed by AA because CX has published fare of such routing. It would be crazy in your mind but some folks like it because the routing maximizes the CX F experience they go after.

Personally I do not mind going out of the way through a hub to an international destination as long as I am flying business or first class. The more comfortable seats and the lounge access help to lessen the inconvenience of longer travel. More importantly it opens up a lot more options in finding award seats.

robyng

Just about all of the service from JAX to EWR is on very small Embraers (the 2/1 variety). So there may be award availability from EWR to our final destination - but not from JAX to EWR. Also - the mileage levels may vary depending on whether the award is out of JAX - or out of EWR. Suspect the planes flying out of FLL and MIA are bigger - and there is more reward availability.

My husband and I have traveled a lot over the last 40 or so years - and there aren't a whole lot of places left that I want to see. China is one of them - especially now that the high speed train from Shanghai to Beijing has opened (we like high speed trains). Reckon I should look at the DL and CO and partner connections for a flight there before deciding what to do with our MR miles before 9/30.

Funny when you talk about going "out of the way". When I was planning our trip to Japan - I thought EWR was "out of the way" - until I realized that the polar route was shorter than going "around the world". Still - going from here to Asia isn't much fun. Because most flights to Asia from the east coast leave early in the morning. It is theoretically possible to catch one of them if we leave here on a 6 am flight - but that means waking up in the middle of the night - and possibly missing our connecting flight if there are any delays. When we flew to Tokyo - we flew to EWR in the late afternoon - spent a night at the hotel airport - and caught a morning flight to Tokyo. Arrived the next day (international date line stuff). You pick up the "lost day" on the return trip - but it is still a disorienting experience.

FWIW - we once - after moving here - took a non-stop from MCO to London on Virgin Atlantic. Upper class reward ticket. Very nice experience. We lived in Miami for 20+ years - and the international service out of MIA was never that great when we lived there. Robyn

Happy

FYI, MIA-JFK-HKG actually is SHORTER distance on a beeline than MIA-SFO-HKG

9161 miles versus 9511 to be exact.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=m...avy&MAP-STYLE=

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=m...avy&MAP-STYLE=

From East Coast going to Asia via Europe is often shorter distance traveled than going to West Coast then Asia.

robyng

Yup - American Airlines seems to be having problems:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...rican+airlines

Robyn

Happy

There is no need to keep replying to a same post just want to prove your point on AA miles, which seems to be of the very minority in FT community that AA miles are worthless.

The WSJ article harping on AA's issues has nothing new to AA flyers. All airlines in this country have problems, including the well-run Southwest, with the high fuel cost and sagging economy. AA has a further burden of its high cost structure.

A large part of AA's high cost is its labor cost.

I remember AA's CEO was saying this on CNBC in the dark days of Post 911 that the airline had only 3 days of Working Capital Cash in its bank account but it hoped to be able to pull it off with some infusion of capital and avoid filing bankruptcy like other airlines had done so.

AA should have filed bankruptcy like all other US legacy airlines have done so during the post 911 difficult time so it would be able to shed its obligation to the employees like UA, CO and DL have done so - those other airlines employees have seen their pension plans reduced to a tiny fraction than it was before the bankruptcies. AA did the right thing not to do this to its employees and now eating crows because of the high labor costs have preventing them to replace their MD-80 to more fuel-efficient models, among other things.

Still, the airline is not going away anytime soon. Problems or not, its miles still are the easiest to use and has the biggest value.

I challenge you to find me something similar on DL to fly this itinerary in business class:

MIA-LAX-AKL-SYD-SIN-KUL-HKG-TPE-ICN-KIX-CTS-NRT-SFO with stopover at every city for only 150K miles.

Or something much simpler:

CDG-MIA-LAX-LIH in coach for 20K miles

HNL-LAX-MIA-LIM coach for 15K miles

Both are starting at OffPeak awards but actually travel in peak season with the seasonality impacted segments.

I am 100% certain it would be mission impossible with SkyPesos.

For an eye-opener, you may be shocked that there are many people putting their money in BankDirect accounts to earn AA miles so much so BD has now put a cap on the annual earning amount limited to 200K at the current rate of 100 miles per $1000 deposit per month, and only 1/2 of the rate above the cap. It also limits only one miles-earning checking account per household if you have not opened 2 before the new rule came into effect. There are folks have far more than FDIC insured amount put at BD to earn AA miles.

These folks must be losing their mind since AA miles are worthless and AA is in trouble!

Meanwhile since you are content to pay 1.5 times more using DL, that you can simply stay with DL or find ways to achieve DL elite status so you have access to lower tier awards instead of paying the ransom DL charges to the Kettles.

dapet

I have 4 Chase cards including Sapphire Preferred (52k pts) and Freedom (70k pts), I have 4 AE cards, G Pm Preferred (90K pts) and Delta (120k pts); also have 2 Citi cards with 130k total pts SPG and HH. Delta and UN/CO are the 2 primary air carriers for me also have AK, AA & SW cards. I want to transfer the Freedom points at the best Value. Is there somewhere better then to United via the Sapphire card for me to put those Freedom points? Thanks for any help.

philemer

Since this thread has morphed AWAY from the Chase Sapphire Card I'm going to close it and y'all can continue your OT discussions on another, appropriate, Forum/Thread.

I hope this thread will remain a good source of reference on the Sapphire card. Thanks for all the helpful posts.