Mar 1, 2023, 1:15 pm
Last edit by: mia
This is the 2023 thread for weighing the relative merits of keeping, upgrading, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
2020 -2022 discussion is HERE.
2020 -2022 discussion is HERE.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2023-)
Jan 3, 2023, 9:02 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NYC suburbs
Programs: UA LT Gold (BIS), AA LT Plat (CC SUBs & BD), Hilton Dia (CC), Hyatt Glob (BIB), et. al.
Posts: 3,299
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2023-)
Datapoint (regarding Chase UR card closure):
If one has multiple UR earning cards, each card basically has its own UR balance. (Different than multiple AmEx MR cards where all MR points, personal and biz, are accumulated in one balance.) It’s very simple to “combine” UR points from one (same person’s) balance to another but each card earns UR points which are, when posted, segregated from other UR points.
I put a little pressure on myself to close an Ink Cash card before 1/1/23 and ended up closing the account by phone without combining my UR points, the agent didn’t say word about it (other than the standard disclosure about “losing rewards”). A few days later I realized (in a panic) what I had done. Fortunately, the website still allowed me to select the closed account and combine UR points.
(Confirmation of Updated Datapoint Update
(sorry, couldn't resist) 
: At the end of the call to close the Ink Cash account, I did ask the (again Chase Executive team) agent about that 90 day thing, he confirmed it.)
If one has multiple UR earning cards, each card basically has its own UR balance. (Different than multiple AmEx MR cards where all MR points, personal and biz, are accumulated in one balance.) It’s very simple to “combine” UR points from one (same person’s) balance to another but each card earns UR points which are, when posted, segregated from other UR points.
I put a little pressure on myself to close an Ink Cash card before 1/1/23 and ended up closing the account by phone without combining my UR points, the agent didn’t say word about it (other than the standard disclosure about “losing rewards”). A few days later I realized (in a panic) what I had done. Fortunately, the website still allowed me to select the closed account and combine UR points.
(Confirmation of Updated Datapoint Update
(sorry, couldn't resist) : At the end of the call to close the Ink Cash account, I did ask the (again Chase Executive team) agent about that 90 day thing, he confirmed it.)
Last edited by mia; Mar 1, 2023 at 1:07 pm
Jan 5, 2023, 12:15 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
Add DP to the 41 days comment
This is Chase SM reply on IHG Premier product change to Travel (no fee)
The account is eligible for full refund of annual fee when the account product change is completed within 41 days from statement date after the annual fee is assessed.
This is Chase SM reply on IHG Premier product change to Travel (no fee)
The account is eligible for full refund of annual fee when the account product change is completed within 41 days from statement date after the annual fee is assessed.
Jan 5, 2023, 7:37 pm
#4
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: LHR, RDU
Posts: 82
I saw something on Reddit that I wanted to confirm here. "For online applications, you can apply 4 calendar days (weekend doesn’t matter) after product changing out of a sapphire."
Is this true? I was planning to PC (downgrade) my CSR to a Freedom (or Slate) tomorrow morning and then apply for the CSP later tmrw afternoon, so I'd like to verify that. What would happen if the above statement is true? Simply apply again after a few days with no issues? Thanks.
Reddit link for full context: https://www.reddit.com/user/garettg/...ent=t1_j34z0ip
Is this true? I was planning to PC (downgrade) my CSR to a Freedom (or Slate) tomorrow morning and then apply for the CSP later tmrw afternoon, so I'd like to verify that. What would happen if the above statement is true? Simply apply again after a few days with no issues? Thanks.
Reddit link for full context: https://www.reddit.com/user/garettg/...ent=t1_j34z0ip
Jan 6, 2023, 8:44 am
#5
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2,263
I saw something on Reddit that I wanted to confirm here. "For online applications, you can apply 4 calendar days (weekend doesn’t matter) after product changing out of a sapphire."
Is this true? I was planning to PC (downgrade) my CSR to a Freedom (or Slate) tomorrow morning and then apply for the CSP later tmrw afternoon, so I'd like to verify that. What would happen if the above statement is true? Simply apply again after a few days with no issues? Thanks.
Reddit link for full context: https://www.reddit.com/user/garettg/...ent=t1_j34z0ip
Is this true? I was planning to PC (downgrade) my CSR to a Freedom (or Slate) tomorrow morning and then apply for the CSP later tmrw afternoon, so I'd like to verify that. What would happen if the above statement is true? Simply apply again after a few days with no issues? Thanks.
Reddit link for full context: https://www.reddit.com/user/garettg/...ent=t1_j34z0ip
Jan 6, 2023, 3:50 pm
#6
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: LHR, RDU
Posts: 82
Sounds good, thanks Schnit . I consolidated my CSR into a CFU, waited several hours and applied for the CSP. I received a message that I wasn't able to apply so I will try again tomorrow/Sunday/Monday until it goes through. I suppose there's nothing wrong with trying once every day since they aren't pulling my credit report?
Jan 9, 2023, 2:34 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
Sounds good, thanks Schnit . I consolidated my CSR into a CFU, waited several hours and applied for the CSP. I received a message that I wasn't able to apply so I will try again tomorrow/Sunday/Monday until it goes through. I suppose there's nothing wrong with trying once every day since they aren't pulling my credit report?
Pulling a credit report should be the last thing you worry about.
This is from reading reports that Banks would block account access if a userid logs in online account multiple times a day, even every credential is met, and is the real owner to log in. That makes sense to me.
Jan 10, 2023, 8:43 am
#8
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2,263
Sounds good, thanks Schnit . I consolidated my CSR into a CFU, waited several hours and applied for the CSP. I received a message that I wasn't able to apply so I will try again tomorrow/Sunday/Monday until it goes through. I suppose there's nothing wrong with trying once every day since they aren't pulling my credit report?
Jan 10, 2023, 9:10 am
#9
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: LHR, RDU
Posts: 82
Jan 10, 2023, 9:36 am
#10
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2,263
If you product changed from CSR to CFU it will not show as closed, since the account is still open and card number is not changed
Jan 10, 2023, 10:09 am
#11
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL, BHM, DUB, County Wexford
Programs: DL DM, AA ExPlt, Diamond HH, HY, BW, & Titanium Elite Marriott
Posts: 4,864
If you PC Bold to Bountiful, what should you expect? Any more elite nights posted? Difference in AF posting(probably not)? Change or posting difference in FNA? Anything you can think of changing right away, positive or negative?
Jan 10, 2023, 10:20 am
#12
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2,263
Bold had no AF, so any posting will be difference, but it should hit on your old card anniversary night.
The Bountiful you need to hit the spend to get the FNA and Bold had none.
I think you are much better with the Boundless unless you have 15k of Marriott stays and/or lots of 1 night stays
Jan 10, 2023, 10:37 am
#13
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL, BHM, DUB, County Wexford
Programs: DL DM, AA ExPlt, Diamond HH, HY, BW, & Titanium Elite Marriott
Posts: 4,864
You get 15 nights no matter how many personal cards (recent glitch aside). So your 15 nights should be unchanged.
Bold had no AF, so any posting will be difference, but it should hit on your old card anniversary night.
The Bountiful you need to hit the spend to get the FNA and Bold had none.
I think you are much better with the Boundless unless you have 15k of Marriott stays and/or lots of 1 night stays
Bold had no AF, so any posting will be difference, but it should hit on your old card anniversary night.
The Bountiful you need to hit the spend to get the FNA and Bold had none.
I think you are much better with the Boundless unless you have 15k of Marriott stays and/or lots of 1 night stays
2. I didn't want Boundless or Bountiful so 5 days later (yesterday) I PC'd to RC
I do not see a value in the new Bountiful card, I wonder why others do?
Last edited by mia; Jan 10, 2023 at 10:49 am Reason: Combine consecutive replies.
Jan 10, 2023, 3:13 pm
#14
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL, BHM, DUB, County Wexford
Programs: DL DM, AA ExPlt, Diamond HH, HY, BW, & Titanium Elite Marriott
Posts: 4,864
It looks like I will be eligible for the Bold and the Boundless again in less than 90 days. See chart below, I have the ones in yellow, I have had within the last 30 days the ones in green. Am I correct?
Last edited by EasternTraveler; Jan 11, 2023 at 4:39 pm