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Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.
All Chase issued cards are here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

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Old Nov 14, 2018, 4:26 pm
  #2176  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,606
DOC is reporting more Chase cards may now be subject to 5/24

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/has-c...-have-no-idea/
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 4:44 pm
  #2177  
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Originally Posted by ewratter
I applied for the Ink Unlimited today and was immediately rejected for having too many new accounts in the last 24 months. I applied for 5 new accounts in the last 2 years but one of those is a Nordstrom store card(not the Visa version...can only be used in a store). I called the reconsideration line twice and the reps told me that the Nordstrom card counts toward the new accounts. I tried to explain that the store card isn't a visa but they didn't seem to care. Should I keep trying to call in and get approved or is this a new change?

Call the recon. # and explain your situation. They should not count a store card. Are you sure you're not an Authorized User on someone else's card?

Read the wikipost at the top of this thread for #s .

BTW, I deleted your duplicate post. Please only post in one thread. Duplicates spread data around too much. Welcome and enjoy you 'trip' on FT.
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 6:53 pm
  #2178  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by mia
Chase, or any other issuer, can look at your credit file even if you have not submitted an application:

https://www.creditkarma.com/advice/i...dit-inquiries/
"Soft credit checks, on the other hand, don’t usually return as much information as a hard check. They provide a broad overview of your credit history.”

https://www.opploans.com/blog/how-do...ct-your-score/

I take this to indicate that a soft pull doesn’t necessarily list say your account opening dates. Even more bare-bones, sometimes a check is just to find out if you’re blacklisted for debt or to see your credit score.

When that is said though, I am open to information that shows otherwise.
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 8:06 pm
  #2179  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 55
Do HELOCs count negatively toward credit card applications? If so, is there a certain length of time I should between the HELOC closing and applying for a credit card?

Specifically, I closed my Hyatt card on 9/26 with the intent of waiting 30 days and applying for a World of Hyatt card after 30 days, per DoC advice. I'm LOL/24 and don't want to wait for 5/24 to apply. Meanwhile, the household just closed on a HELOC today. How long should I wait to apply for a WoHyatt card?
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Old Nov 15, 2018, 5:53 am
  #2180  
 
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Originally Posted by alvinroast
Do HELOCs count negatively toward credit card applications? If so, is there a certain length of time I should between the HELOC closing and applying for a credit card?

Specifically, I closed my Hyatt card on 9/26 with the intent of waiting 30 days and applying for a World of Hyatt card after 30 days, per DoC advice. I'm LOL/24 and don't want to wait for 5/24 to apply. Meanwhile, the household just closed on a HELOC today. How long should I wait to apply for a WoHyatt card?
Rampant speculation at a couple of different online communities that Hyatt card now falls under 5/24:

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/has-c...-have-no-idea/
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Old Nov 15, 2018, 8:12 am
  #2181  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by RobertHanson
Not just you, everyone should pay off the bulk of their charges before they post. Most CC companies report when your statement posts (except maybe Barclays does it at the end of the month?). Best practice is to pay off almost everything you have charged before it posts, except for a few hundred $ on one or two cards. When I did that, instead of paying everything off, my CS went up around 3 points. Since this is so low, the report on credit utilization will still be zero. Yet that still lets cc companies know that you do in fact use your cards.
Precisely. Squeezing the interest-free credit right up to the due day is really playing the credit card companies’ game, which takes away a one month emergency fund flexibility for a rainy day, unless of course you actually keep it the bank.

By adjusting your credit card payment habit halfway towards that of a debit card, the lowered reported utilization provides a continuous score benefit, something that isn’t effortless to do when suddenly in the last minute you need it the most.
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Old Nov 15, 2018, 9:31 am
  #2182  
mia
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Originally Posted by vanillabean
...., I am open to information that shows otherwise.
A soft credit check shows the same information as a hard inquiry. This includes your loans and lines of credit as well as their payment history and any collections accounts, tax liens or other public records in your name.
https://wallethub.com/answers/what-d...ow-2140647534/

I think there is confusion because issuers can choose the information that they want to see when paying for inquiries. They may simply ask for a list of prospects to meet their criteria, and not actually look at the details of any individual account, but it certainly appears that they can access more detail if they need (and are willing to pay for) it.
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Old Nov 15, 2018, 10:55 am
  #2183  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Posts: 180
Originally Posted by Diplomatico
Rampant speculation at a couple of different online communities that Hyatt card now falls under 5/24:

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/has-c...-have-no-idea/
Declined for a Chase Iberia credit card today because "9 cards opened within the past 24 months is too many"
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Old Nov 15, 2018, 11:33 am
  #2184  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by philemer
Call the recon. # and explain your situation. They should not count a store card. Are you sure you're not an Authorized User on someone else's card?

Read the wikipost at the top of this thread for #'s .

BTW, I deleted your duplicate post. Please only post in one thread. Duplicates spread data around too much. Welcome and enjoy you 'trip' on FT.
Definitely don't have any authorized user cards. I'm going to try calling again today but they were pretty firm the first 2 times I called. These are my past applications and how long I have had each card

Nordstrom Store Card (non-visa) - 14 months
Wells Fargo Cash Wise - 5 months
Ally Cashback - 4 months
Chase Freedom - 3 months
Sapphire Preferred - 2.5 months
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Old Nov 15, 2018, 12:52 pm
  #2185  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 85
Currently sitting at 2/24 with 2 Chase biz cards and 4 personal cards. I now want to apply for the biz and personal Southwest cards so I can score the Companion Pass. What order should I apply for these cards in and how many days should I wait between applications? Also, Should I close any of the personal or business cards first the better my approval chances? Solid income with 800+ credit score
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Old Nov 16, 2018, 7:55 am
  #2186  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 542
Originally Posted by departingBOS
Currently sitting at 2/24 with 2 Chase biz cards and 4 personal cards. I now want to apply for the biz and personal Southwest cards so I can score the Companion Pass. What order should I apply for these cards in and how many days should I wait between applications? Also, Should I close any of the personal or business cards first the better my approval chances? Solid income with 800+ credit score
I have the same question, only close both southwest cards 2 years ago. Now want to apply for 2 southwest cards, but not sure what order and if its enough time to get bonus and companion pass before calendar year ends.
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Old Nov 16, 2018, 10:14 am
  #2187  
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Originally Posted by Green_eyes
I have the same question, only close both southwest cards 2 years ago. Now want to apply for 2 southwest cards, but not sure what order and if its enough time to get bonus and companion pass before calendar year ends.
Read this article https://frequentmiler.boardingarea.c...rapid-rewards/ and you may change your mind because of all the spending required to get the CP. Also, if you pursue this, you want to meet your min. spend in early 2019, not by year end. Also, read the long thread on the CP topic on our SWA Forum.
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Old Nov 16, 2018, 10:25 am
  #2188  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS 75K (OW), SK Silver (*A), UR, MR
Posts: 3,346
Someone once said, "To be free is nothing, to become free is everything.” Or if you will, in the world of rewards credit cards there's no such thing as “free.” So that’s my take on the 5/24 1/48.

I guess the same goes for credit-to-income ratio. My wife and I have three Chase cards with high limits, so how do you best make room for another card? It is not my assumption you can simply lower one card and expect a new card with that limit.

Added:

Why you should consider lowering your Chase credit card limits
https://www.asksebby.com/blog/why-yo...it-card-limits

Last edited by vanillabean; Nov 19, 2018 at 2:35 pm
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Old Nov 16, 2018, 10:42 am
  #2189  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York
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Posts: 1,342
For Chase 5/24, do I use the number that Chase shows on my account?

Title basically says it all, but here's a little depth to the question. I was just futzing around on their site and decided to check what they said my score is. I have several Citi cards, and as folks like to say, I am currently LOL/24. So, what surprised me is that it shows I only have 5 inquiries according to Chase. I believe most of my Citi apps go through Experian and the score Chase reported says it comes from TransUnion (which I guess explains the difference). What I'm wondering is...if I watch that number on Chase's site and it drops to 4, should I then be good to get a card cuz Chase thinks I'm below 5/24?
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Old Nov 16, 2018, 11:50 am
  #2190  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by Green_eyes
I have the same question, only close both southwest cards 2 years ago. Now want to apply for 2 southwest cards, but not sure what order and if its enough time to get bonus and companion pass before calendar year ends.
Applied for the biz card today and then called recon line a few hours later. After a 20 min interrogation and moving CL around, I was approved for the SW biz card. Should I apply for the personal card via one of the 50k/$1k links or wait a month before applying for the personal card?
departingBOS is offline  


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