Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Mar 14, 2016, 8:15 am
#91
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Programs: AA EXP; Marriott Lifetime / Annual Titanium; Massively Missing Starwood
Posts: 5,340
I have 3 different Ink products; keep or close
I currently have:
Ink Business Plus MC with a fairly low credit limit
Ink Business Bold Visa with a high credit limit
Ink Business Plus Visa with a high credit limit
I got all three to get the sign up bonuses. I've got enough credit on the two Visa's to cover anything that I might purchase.
I see no reason at all to keep the Ink Business Plus MC, but I'm always hesitant to close one out. Any reason that anyone can see to keep the MC?
(fwiw, I applied for and was denied a Hyatt card through Chase. The reason they stated is that I have so much credit across my business and personal accounts, though they said I could not shuffle between business and personal. Closing the MC reduces the credit across all products by 5% but also saves me the annual fee on that card).
Ink Business Plus MC with a fairly low credit limit
Ink Business Bold Visa with a high credit limit
Ink Business Plus Visa with a high credit limit
I got all three to get the sign up bonuses. I've got enough credit on the two Visa's to cover anything that I might purchase.
I see no reason at all to keep the Ink Business Plus MC, but I'm always hesitant to close one out. Any reason that anyone can see to keep the MC?
(fwiw, I applied for and was denied a Hyatt card through Chase. The reason they stated is that I have so much credit across my business and personal accounts, though they said I could not shuffle between business and personal. Closing the MC reduces the credit across all products by 5% but also saves me the annual fee on that card).
Mar 14, 2016, 9:03 am
#92
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: Hilton-Diamond Lifetime Platinum AA UA, WN-CP, SPG Gold.
Posts: 7,377
I keep all 3, 5 X at Office Supplies, 50k limit each card.
CL does not matter we pay in full every month.
They can move the CL,
We also bank with Chase., and have a Hyatt Card,
Ask for a credit review, or just pay them off quicker, than the close date.
CL does not matter we pay in full every month.
They can move the CL,
We also bank with Chase., and have a Hyatt Card,
Ask for a credit review, or just pay them off quicker, than the close date.
Mar 14, 2016, 9:44 am
#93
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX, BUR
Programs: AS,AA,JB, HH Gold, Starriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Explorist, Global Entry
Posts: 1,933
I currently have:
Ink Business Plus MC with a fairly low credit limit
Ink Business Bold Visa with a high credit limit
Ink Business Plus Visa with a high credit limit
Closing the MC reduces the credit across all products by 5% but also saves me the annual fee on that card).
Ink Business Plus MC with a fairly low credit limit
Ink Business Bold Visa with a high credit limit
Ink Business Plus Visa with a high credit limit
Closing the MC reduces the credit across all products by 5% but also saves me the annual fee on that card).
Mar 14, 2016, 12:05 pm
#94
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tulsa, OK
Programs: HHonors Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 306
Keep the Bold card as they are no longer issuing it. If you close the Plus, you have the option of applying again down the road and perhaps securing another application bonus.
If you want to maintain most of your credit line, you can transfer credit from the card(s) you will close to the card you will keep via secure messaging. Most cards require you maintain a minimum credit line of $5000. After the credit transfer takes place, you can then close the account(s) via SM.
If you want to maintain most of your credit line, you can transfer credit from the card(s) you will close to the card you will keep via secure messaging. Most cards require you maintain a minimum credit line of $5000. After the credit transfer takes place, you can then close the account(s) via SM.
Mar 24, 2016, 9:36 pm
#95
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 587
I recently upgraded (less than 30 days ago) my Ink Cash MC to Ink Plus Visa, but now I'm thinking of going back to Ink Cash because of the 2% rewards at restaurants (going to cancel Citi Forward after June devaluation). I think they will allow the "downgrade" but does anyone know if it will be a Visa or MasterCard ?
Just converted back to Ink Cash. Looks like it will be a Visa.
Just converted back to Ink Cash. Looks like it will be a Visa.
Last edited by philemer; Mar 25, 2016 at 6:00 am
Apr 3, 2016, 1:22 pm
#96
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 82
Datapoint here.
My annual fee on my CSP is coming up. I have a fairly new Ink+ (so I don't need ability to transfer out points), and I don't have a freedom, so I figured I would convert the CSP to a freedom.
Called in, and was told by the rep that my only option was to convert the CSP to a regular Sapphire (the card that is not offered dirrectly. No annual fee, no transferability, and DOES have foreign transaction fees). I asked why I wasn't allowed to convert to a freedom.
She mentioned that when the new promotions come out, they try to encourage people to sign up for the card directly rather than just converting to it, and so product conversions to a freedom are not available for a few months and that I should check back likely in June.
I asked what she meant by "new promotions", and she referenced the Freedom Unlimited card with its 1.5%. I said that I wanted the original Freedom with its rotating 5% bonus categories. She understood, but mentioned that since there was a new offer within the Freedom family of cards (the Freedom Unlimited offer, in this case), that as of about a week ago the entire Freedom family is not allowed for product conversions. She told me with confidence that it should be available for PCs likely in June.
My annual fee on my CSP is coming up. I have a fairly new Ink+ (so I don't need ability to transfer out points), and I don't have a freedom, so I figured I would convert the CSP to a freedom.
Called in, and was told by the rep that my only option was to convert the CSP to a regular Sapphire (the card that is not offered dirrectly. No annual fee, no transferability, and DOES have foreign transaction fees). I asked why I wasn't allowed to convert to a freedom.
She mentioned that when the new promotions come out, they try to encourage people to sign up for the card directly rather than just converting to it, and so product conversions to a freedom are not available for a few months and that I should check back likely in June.
I asked what she meant by "new promotions", and she referenced the Freedom Unlimited card with its 1.5%. I said that I wanted the original Freedom with its rotating 5% bonus categories. She understood, but mentioned that since there was a new offer within the Freedom family of cards (the Freedom Unlimited offer, in this case), that as of about a week ago the entire Freedom family is not allowed for product conversions. She told me with confidence that it should be available for PCs likely in June.
Apr 3, 2016, 2:57 pm
#97
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 845
Datapoint here.
My annual fee on my CSP is coming up. I have a fairly new Ink+ (so I don't need ability to transfer out points), and I don't have a freedom, so I figured I would convert the CSP to a freedom.
Called in, and was told by the rep that my only option was to convert the CSP to a regular Sapphire (the card that is not offered dirrectly. No annual fee, no transferability, and DOES have foreign transaction fees). I asked why I wasn't allowed to convert to a freedom.
She mentioned that when the new promotions come out, they try to encourage people to sign up for the card directly rather than just converting to it, and so product conversions to a freedom are not available for a few months and that I should check back likely in June.
I asked what she meant by "new promotions", and she referenced the Freedom Unlimited card with its 1.5%. I said that I wanted the original Freedom with its rotating 5% bonus categories. She understood, but mentioned that since there was a new offer within the Freedom family of cards (the Freedom Unlimited offer, in this case), that as of about a week ago the entire Freedom family is not allowed for product conversions. She told me with confidence that it should be available for PCs likely in June.
My annual fee on my CSP is coming up. I have a fairly new Ink+ (so I don't need ability to transfer out points), and I don't have a freedom, so I figured I would convert the CSP to a freedom.
Called in, and was told by the rep that my only option was to convert the CSP to a regular Sapphire (the card that is not offered dirrectly. No annual fee, no transferability, and DOES have foreign transaction fees). I asked why I wasn't allowed to convert to a freedom.
She mentioned that when the new promotions come out, they try to encourage people to sign up for the card directly rather than just converting to it, and so product conversions to a freedom are not available for a few months and that I should check back likely in June.
I asked what she meant by "new promotions", and she referenced the Freedom Unlimited card with its 1.5%. I said that I wanted the original Freedom with its rotating 5% bonus categories. She understood, but mentioned that since there was a new offer within the Freedom family of cards (the Freedom Unlimited offer, in this case), that as of about a week ago the entire Freedom family is not allowed for product conversions. She told me with confidence that it should be available for PCs likely in June.
Apr 3, 2016, 8:04 pm
#100
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AS MVPG, HA Plat
Posts: 1,268
Just converted my wife's little-used Sapphire to Freedom Unlimited this afternoon.
Apr 3, 2016, 8:27 pm
#101
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SIN
Posts: 1,098
Datapoint: Just SM-ed to convert my United Plus Explorer into the no-fee United Rewards card.
Apr 19, 2016, 11:39 am
#102
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 8
I have read most of this thread. I still would like to ask, in the last quarter, has anyone had success in converting their Ink Plus to Ink Cash during renewal?
I am not so much interested in the retention bonus/credit to my account because I already have Sapphire (CSP) and plan to keep that. My business is small and can't really justify the AF. Well, if they offer, I will take it haha
I am not so much interested in the retention bonus/credit to my account because I already have Sapphire (CSP) and plan to keep that. My business is small and can't really justify the AF. Well, if they offer, I will take it haha
Apr 20, 2016, 8:34 am
#103
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 10
Help with Chase UR Strategy
I've searched around the net before posting this, because I want to make sure I don't make a vital mistake.
I've had the CSP for 5 years, putting $35K per year on it. I recently discovered that after 2 years you are eligible for the sign up bonus again. I want to attain this.
I also have the Chase Freedom (Legacy). I was going to send all of my UR points to my Freedom and call to cancel my CSP. I would expect to get a retention offer - which I would accept - but still intend to close the card. After that my choice would be to flat out cancel CSP, or change the card to the Freedom Unlimited.
Thank you all for your help.
I've had the CSP for 5 years, putting $35K per year on it. I recently discovered that after 2 years you are eligible for the sign up bonus again. I want to attain this.
I also have the Chase Freedom (Legacy). I was going to send all of my UR points to my Freedom and call to cancel my CSP. I would expect to get a retention offer - which I would accept - but still intend to close the card. After that my choice would be to flat out cancel CSP, or change the card to the Freedom Unlimited.
- If I accept a retention offer, is there any penalty for closing the card soon after? Will it affect my next application?
- Is keeping the credit line active (changing to FU) worth losing out on Freedom Unlimited signup bonus?
Thank you all for your help.
Apr 20, 2016, 12:39 pm
#104
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
Hello Apollo 88. Welcome to FT.
I'm going to move your post to a thread where it may get more views and input. Please continue the discussion there.
There is no specific penalty for cancelling a card soon after receiving a retention bonus, but it should be noted that the banks offer retention bonuses for the express purpose of retaining your business. It should not have any impact on future applications, except to free up credit lines. Downgrading to a no fee card, such as the Freedom or Freedom Unlimited would "cost" you the opportunity to get the signup bonus, but would allow you to keep the nice, 5 year credit history that you have on the card.
We also have a specific, if somewhat overlapping, thread on downgrading the Sapphire cards in particular. You can find that here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...de-cancel.html
I'm going to move your post to a thread where it may get more views and input. Please continue the discussion there.
There is no specific penalty for cancelling a card soon after receiving a retention bonus, but it should be noted that the banks offer retention bonuses for the express purpose of retaining your business. It should not have any impact on future applications, except to free up credit lines. Downgrading to a no fee card, such as the Freedom or Freedom Unlimited would "cost" you the opportunity to get the signup bonus, but would allow you to keep the nice, 5 year credit history that you have on the card.
We also have a specific, if somewhat overlapping, thread on downgrading the Sapphire cards in particular. You can find that here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...de-cancel.html
Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Apr 20, 2016 at 12:48 pm
May 11, 2016, 3:15 pm
#105
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2
Hi!
I'm fairly new to whole points/bonuses etc game with credit cards, but I think it's time to start it.
Right now I have Chase Slate card with 20k limit, Freedom Unlimited (resently opened), and application pending on CSP (fingers crossed)
I don't really see any points of keeping Slate (opened for free BT couple years ago, paid out). Not sure should I call to reduce credit limit (maybe to up chances of getting CSP?), convert to Chase Freedom, something else?
I'm fairly new to whole points/bonuses etc game with credit cards, but I think it's time to start it.
Right now I have Chase Slate card with 20k limit, Freedom Unlimited (resently opened), and application pending on CSP (fingers crossed)
I don't really see any points of keeping Slate (opened for free BT couple years ago, paid out). Not sure should I call to reduce credit limit (maybe to up chances of getting CSP?), convert to Chase Freedom, something else?