Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Jan 22, 2017, 8:08 am
#391
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 199
Yeah, that seems reasonable since you switched to a different Chase product.
Jan 22, 2017, 8:25 am
#392
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 495
1) Cancel within 30 days of the annual fee (AF) hitting your account and get a full refund.
2) If you "Product Change" or PC from one fee-based card to another fee-based card, you get a pro-rated refund of the initial fee-based card you are transferring from, while getting the full annual fee of the card you are PC'ing into.
3) In all other scenarios, there is no refund or pro-rated refunds.
Does this summarize it correctly?
Jan 22, 2017, 8:45 am
#393
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,958
Jan 22, 2017, 10:37 am
#394
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: DC Suburbs
Programs: DL Gold, Hilton Gold, Carnival VIFP Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 459
My wife wants to lower her annual fees, and will likely want to convert her Chase Sapphire Preferred into a Chase Freedom Card, and her United MileagePlus Explorer card into a Chase Freedom Unlimited card. We will have lots of Freedom category AND 1x category stuff to buy this year, so having that much more room for 5x categories and 1.5x on everything else will be advantageous.
If we were to do this:
1) Would changing products on existing accounts have any 5/24 implications?
2) Would there be any hard pulls involved?
Thanks!
(Posting here as this involves multiple types of Chase cards and not just the Preferred).
If we were to do this:
1) Would changing products on existing accounts have any 5/24 implications?
2) Would there be any hard pulls involved?
Thanks!
(Posting here as this involves multiple types of Chase cards and not just the Preferred).
Jan 22, 2017, 10:41 am
#395
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
My wife wants to lower her annual fees, and will likely want to convert her Chase Sapphire Preferred into a Chase Freedom Card, and her United MileagePlus Explorer card into a Chase Freedom Unlimited card. <snip>
1) Would changing products on existing accounts have any 5/24 implications?
2) Would there be any hard pulls involved?
1) Would changing products on existing accounts have any 5/24 implications?
2) Would there be any hard pulls involved?
1) No
2) No
Jan 22, 2017, 12:17 pm
#396
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: DC Suburbs
Programs: DL Gold, Hilton Gold, Carnival VIFP Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 459
1) Convert CSP to Freedom
2) Apply for Freedom Unlimited
3) Cancel MPX and ask Chase to reallocate as much of its credit limit as possible between the remaining cards.
So we'd save one ding on the 5/24 and one hard pull in order to save $190 in annual fees and have a better product mix (read: point earnings) for our year ahead where cash airfares paid and dining expenses will be lower, and expenses in the Freedom 5x and otherwise 1 point/$1 categories will be higher.
Thanks!
Jan 23, 2017, 7:05 am
#397
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Thanks. So I guess the strategy should be:
1) Convert CSP to Freedom
2) Apply for Freedom Unlimited
3) Cancel MPX and ask Chase to reallocate as much of its credit limit as possible between the remaining cards.
So we'd save one ding on the 5/24 and one hard pull in order to save $190 in annual fees and have a better product mix (read: point earnings) for our year ahead where cash airfares paid and dining expenses will be lower, and expenses in the Freedom 5x and otherwise 1 point/$1 categories will be higher.
Thanks!
1) Convert CSP to Freedom
2) Apply for Freedom Unlimited
3) Cancel MPX and ask Chase to reallocate as much of its credit limit as possible between the remaining cards.
So we'd save one ding on the 5/24 and one hard pull in order to save $190 in annual fees and have a better product mix (read: point earnings) for our year ahead where cash airfares paid and dining expenses will be lower, and expenses in the Freedom 5x and otherwise 1 point/$1 categories will be higher.
Thanks!
This is the route I've chosen to take.
Jan 23, 2017, 9:31 am
#398
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
An alternative Option 3 if you are 5/24 sensitive. You can product change MPE to a no-annual-fee United card. I grant you the card itself is rather useless, but think of it as a placeholder. The card could be useful if in the future you find yourself in need of some MPE benefits, and can't re-apply due to 5/24. Instead, you can just upgrade your useless card back to MPE.
This is the route I've chosen to take.
This is the route I've chosen to take.
Jan 23, 2017, 8:14 pm
#399
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 52
Likely a well known data point but figured I'd add it nonetheless. After receiving my new CSR, I downgraded my CSP to a FU. Received my new FU card a few days later with everything else staying the same (account number, credit line, etc).
Jan 23, 2017, 10:14 pm
#400
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: GE
Posts: 247
My sister has only a CSP, open for 36 mo. Annual fee should post on next statement. As soon as it posts, can she get refund, downgrade to F/FU and immediately reapply for CSP? Is it OK to leave the UR during the downgrade?
Last edited by bbtrvl; Jan 24, 2017 at 1:10 am
Jan 24, 2017, 6:00 pm
#401
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: DC Suburbs
Programs: DL Gold, Hilton Gold, Carnival VIFP Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 459
An alternative Option 3 if you are 5/24 sensitive. You can product change MPE to a no-annual-fee United card. I grant you the card itself is rather useless, but think of it as a placeholder. The card could be useful if in the future you find yourself in need of some MPE benefits, and can't re-apply due to 5/24. Instead, you can just upgrade your useless card back to MPE.
This is the route I've chosen to take.
This is the route I've chosen to take.
This is what I would do, also. Further, If there's still a 5/24 slot available at Chase, I'd apply for the CSR, in branch if possible, to grab the 100K points that are still available. Then enjoy that card for a year, getting $300 + $300 in travel reimbursements for 2017 & 2018, then ramp that down to the SP then the Freedom when the next card fee is due.
My wife has a CSR already, and I didn't mention it here before because we heavily use it and don't plan to get rid of it, but thanks for the tip!
Jan 26, 2017, 10:21 am
#402
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 77
Thank you all. So, I assume these are the rules for Chase annual fee-based cards.
1) Cancel within 30 days of the annual fee (AF) hitting your account and get a full refund.
2) If you "Product Change" or PC from one fee-based card to another fee-based card, you get a pro-rated refund of the initial fee-based card you are transferring from, while getting the full annual fee of the card you are PC'ing into.
3) In all other scenarios, there is no refund or pro-rated refunds.
Does this summarize it correctly?
1) Cancel within 30 days of the annual fee (AF) hitting your account and get a full refund.
2) If you "Product Change" or PC from one fee-based card to another fee-based card, you get a pro-rated refund of the initial fee-based card you are transferring from, while getting the full annual fee of the card you are PC'ing into.
3) In all other scenarios, there is no refund or pro-rated refunds.
Does this summarize it correctly?
Jan 27, 2017, 9:37 pm
#403
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: PIT-SCE-AOO-PHL-NYC-WAS
Programs: free agent
Posts: 1,036
Yep, 
. If I do it all over again, I would cancel CSP and preserve my chance to scoop FU bonus.
However, I applied for CSP around 09/2013, so it's a safe bet that I can re-apply CSP once i clear 5/24 later during this year based on this rule - previous cardmembers of this credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this credit card within the last 24 months
I downgraded CSP to FU on last September, and it's more than 3 years ago since I got CSP bonus. Am i interpreting this rule correctly?
. If I do it all over again, I would cancel CSP and preserve my chance to scoop FU bonus. However, I applied for CSP around 09/2013, so it's a safe bet that I can re-apply CSP once i clear 5/24 later during this year based on this rule - previous cardmembers of this credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this credit card within the last 24 months
I downgraded CSP to FU on last September, and it's more than 3 years ago since I got CSP bonus. Am i interpreting this rule correctly?
Feb 9, 2017, 10:20 am
#404
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 615
Wife and I are planning to apply for the CSR at the branch to secure the 100k bonus. The plan is for me to keep the card and her to downgrade after the first year.
Question - I've read different things about downgrading. I've read that downgrade requires a new application for a card and thus counting against the 5/24?? The plan is for her to downgrade to a CSP after the first year. That seems to be a common strategy but I'm unsure if it requires a new application.
Same question goes if she decides to opt for the Freedom (or Unlimited). Does it require a new application since it's a different product? IF that's the case, I'm guessing sticking with the CSP is the way to go. Thoughts?
Question - I've read different things about downgrading. I've read that downgrade requires a new application for a card and thus counting against the 5/24?? The plan is for her to downgrade to a CSP after the first year. That seems to be a common strategy but I'm unsure if it requires a new application.
Same question goes if she decides to opt for the Freedom (or Unlimited). Does it require a new application since it's a different product? IF that's the case, I'm guessing sticking with the CSP is the way to go. Thoughts?
Feb 9, 2017, 12:34 pm
#405
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: PHX, ORD, MDW
Programs: WN A-List, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, National Executive Elite
Posts: 292
Wife and I are planning to apply for the CSR at the branch to secure the 100k bonus. The plan is for me to keep the card and her to downgrade after the first year.
Question - I've read different things about downgrading. I've read that downgrade requires a new application for a card and thus counting against the 5/24?? The plan is for her to downgrade to a CSP after the first year. That seems to be a common strategy but I'm unsure if it requires a new application.
Same question goes if she decides to opt for the Freedom (or Unlimited). Does it require a new application since it's a different product? IF that's the case, I'm guessing sticking with the CSP is the way to go. Thoughts?
Question - I've read different things about downgrading. I've read that downgrade requires a new application for a card and thus counting against the 5/24?? The plan is for her to downgrade to a CSP after the first year. That seems to be a common strategy but I'm unsure if it requires a new application.
Same question goes if she decides to opt for the Freedom (or Unlimited). Does it require a new application since it's a different product? IF that's the case, I'm guessing sticking with the CSP is the way to go. Thoughts?