Class Upgrade Bidding Initiative - your feedback sought
May 23, 2014, 8:35 pm
#16
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,978
On both these flights, J flew with 2 people in it.
I surmise that, unless Y becomes oversold, you low J bid will fail.
This means that their no such thing as a "cheapie upgrade".
If you were to bid the $$ to take your bid up to the value of the top J bucket you would probably be successful, but what's the point of doing this.
May 23, 2014, 8:39 pm
#17
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: HKG/HND/OOL
Programs: QF Emerald. SQ Gold.
Posts: 3,170
here are 2 school of thoughts.
if cabin is not over-booked: as someone mentioned with experience of Virgin, CX will NOT accept any low-ball bid to upgrade to J. because if that happened some people will simply stop buying J. So the system wouldn't work. If they were willing to pay at least the fare difference, they wud have bot J.
if cabin is over-booked: - this system sounds like a cheap attempt to earn that extra cash for flight that are already over-booked. So instead of giving DM/GO the opportunity to fly up front for free as gesture of appreciation, they want extra US$300 to auction an upgrade a pleb on N class which would have gone for "free" to loyal DM on K fare.... it will simply piss off the existing DM.
As saying goes don't fix what's not broken. Current system is fair and rewards loyal flyers in an unpublished way.
if cabin is not over-booked: as someone mentioned with experience of Virgin, CX will NOT accept any low-ball bid to upgrade to J. because if that happened some people will simply stop buying J. So the system wouldn't work. If they were willing to pay at least the fare difference, they wud have bot J.
if cabin is over-booked: - this system sounds like a cheap attempt to earn that extra cash for flight that are already over-booked. So instead of giving DM/GO the opportunity to fly up front for free as gesture of appreciation, they want extra US$300 to auction an upgrade a pleb on N class which would have gone for "free" to loyal DM on K fare.... it will simply piss off the existing DM.
As saying goes don't fix what's not broken. Current system is fair and rewards loyal flyers in an unpublished way.
May 23, 2014, 8:59 pm
#18
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX Diamond (OW Emerald), former SQ Krisflyer Gold
Posts: 2,527
No.
I can understand the airline's motivation to squeeze every possible cent out of the passengers but one of the main reasons I continue to fly CX is for unpublished benefits like op-up on full flights, which would disappear if this was implemented. I'm not being cheap, I actually drive more revenue to CX by paying for PE instead of regular Y on the chance that I might get an op-up to J. This incremental revenue is not insignificant over the long run, and if I know I will never get op-up (or chances very low due to some bidding system), I may decide to forgo PE and fly Y instead.
So it's a firm no for me.
If implemented, then yes.
I can understand the airline's motivation to squeeze every possible cent out of the passengers but one of the main reasons I continue to fly CX is for unpublished benefits like op-up on full flights, which would disappear if this was implemented. I'm not being cheap, I actually drive more revenue to CX by paying for PE instead of regular Y on the chance that I might get an op-up to J. This incremental revenue is not insignificant over the long run, and if I know I will never get op-up (or chances very low due to some bidding system), I may decide to forgo PE and fly Y instead.
So it's a firm no for me.
If implemented, then yes.
May 23, 2014, 9:04 pm
#19
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
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To be honest, i see nothing wrong with the current sustem of payibg the fare difference - well, maybe forego the change fee. But otherwise, whats wrong with payibg fpr the fare difference. At least this is the fair percpective of travellers.
If cx wants to sell upgrades all the time instead, that means the pricing is wrong in the first place
To be honest, i see nothing wrong with the current sustem of payibg the fare difference - well, maybe forego the change fee. But otherwise, whats wrong with payibg fpr the fare difference. At least this is the fair percpective of travellers.
If cx wants to sell upgrades all the time instead, that means the pricing is wrong in the first place
May 23, 2014, 10:19 pm
#20
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New York, NY USA
Programs: AA 8MM Exec,Life Plat, Marriott Amb,Life Titanium, ,Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist.
Posts: 495
Fearful thought for frequent fliers but makes sense.
This is a direct threat to being able to obtain free tickets using miles. That said, from a business point of view, it is quite smart. If Cathay can fill an F class seat which would cost $15,000 USD for $7500 it is better than flying empty. My experience is below.
I flew Etihad through Abu Dhabi to JFK. They had a promotion from Bangkok to JFK in J class for about $3200 R/T. Two weeks prior to traveling they sent me an email with a little Meter in it offering me to bid on a F class upgrade.....I looked online...looked at the beds....Checked the wine list and obsessed for three days. From Bangkok there was only J so there was thankfully no upgrade choice. But the loooong flight from Abu Dhabi to JFK was looking mighty long.....I put in $700 and the meter was still in the red....when I got to $1200 it was in the green showing me I had a good chance....So I bid $1200 and then thought about it....I spend thousands on luggage and clothes, Watches, trips and cars....why am I being cheap with bidding. I raised my offer to $1500 and low and behold....I flew F...and was lucky because they had Fog and the flight turned into a 16 hour Dom Perignon fueled Odyssey...Fabulous. Flying chef etc...
On the way home I decided to bid the same $1500 and scored again...fabulous first class experience.
So ultimately my "sale ticket" of $3200 cost me $6200. The humour in this is that this was similar to the F class corporate rate one of my friends pays who works for an oil company.....so essentially, the airline maximized their revenue.
I own my own company and make my own decisions. I pay discount fares when I fly personally and always fly business or F class, which I pay for myself. Most business class corporate fliers wouldn't pony up their own cash to fly business class if it was their $$....this is a known fact. This gives the person who has some cash and wants the opportunity to fly in the front of the bus a chance.
That said, Op ups, Upgrade availability and FF tickets will suffer for this. But ultimately, I think it's a smart idea because people love to "get a deal" and this makes it appear like you are...And there is a lot of money in HKG......
Safe travels to all.
I flew Etihad through Abu Dhabi to JFK. They had a promotion from Bangkok to JFK in J class for about $3200 R/T. Two weeks prior to traveling they sent me an email with a little Meter in it offering me to bid on a F class upgrade.....I looked online...looked at the beds....Checked the wine list and obsessed for three days. From Bangkok there was only J so there was thankfully no upgrade choice. But the loooong flight from Abu Dhabi to JFK was looking mighty long.....I put in $700 and the meter was still in the red....when I got to $1200 it was in the green showing me I had a good chance....So I bid $1200 and then thought about it....I spend thousands on luggage and clothes, Watches, trips and cars....why am I being cheap with bidding. I raised my offer to $1500 and low and behold....I flew F...and was lucky because they had Fog and the flight turned into a 16 hour Dom Perignon fueled Odyssey...Fabulous. Flying chef etc...
On the way home I decided to bid the same $1500 and scored again...fabulous first class experience.
So ultimately my "sale ticket" of $3200 cost me $6200. The humour in this is that this was similar to the F class corporate rate one of my friends pays who works for an oil company.....so essentially, the airline maximized their revenue.
I own my own company and make my own decisions. I pay discount fares when I fly personally and always fly business or F class, which I pay for myself. Most business class corporate fliers wouldn't pony up their own cash to fly business class if it was their $$....this is a known fact. This gives the person who has some cash and wants the opportunity to fly in the front of the bus a chance.
That said, Op ups, Upgrade availability and FF tickets will suffer for this. But ultimately, I think it's a smart idea because people love to "get a deal" and this makes it appear like you are...And there is a lot of money in HKG......
Safe travels to all.
May 24, 2014, 12:07 am
#22
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: OZ, Perth
Programs: QF QR Silver, DJ,TG,MH
Posts: 509
[QUOTE=Cathay Boy;22916093]You're assuming CX will do it exactly the way Virgin Australia does it. Maybe CX is more flexible in the bidding process as the flight date approaches.[/QUOTE
No I'm not. I'm tabling my experience. May be you're making the assumption that a CX will be nicer to its pax and not as money hungry as Branson.
With Virgin, the upgrade offer comes via email 5 - 7 days out and their email response (accept or decline) hits your inbox the day of the flight.
No I'm not. I'm tabling my experience. May be you're making the assumption that a CX will be nicer to its pax and not as money hungry as Branson.
With Virgin, the upgrade offer comes via email 5 - 7 days out and their email response (accept or decline) hits your inbox the day of the flight.
May 24, 2014, 1:43 am
#23
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Auckland NZ
Programs: NZ Gold Elite, AS, AC, QF
Posts: 748
As someone who flies Air NZ frequently, their "one up" bid system is maddening: it makes it much harder for frequent flyers with status to redeem recognition upgrades. The airline is putting relatively small amounts of cash ahead of consumer loyalty--and we're voting with our feet. I'm looking seriously at shifting my business entirely towards OneWorld (I have status with Marco Polo as well).
May 24, 2014, 2:30 am
#24
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London, England
Programs: OW Emerald (BA), UA*G, Marriott Plat, IC RA, Various others
Posts: 1,009
I am in the definite NO camp. It devalues the product. Offer loyal customers the chance to redeem miles for upgrades should CX have empty seats that they prefer to fill. This could even be done close to departure time. Otherwise, don't annoy those who buy revenue J tickets by chasing a few dollars. I think CX'll lose more in the way of customers (like jawnbc above) voting with their feet than they will in the longer term. Leave all this bidding nonsense to others...
May 24, 2014, 2:36 am
#25
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 859
Definitely NO for me. When I book for J or PE+ travel, I expect that the cabin be kept as empty as possible so that I can get the best possible service. I really don't want cheap "N" class people paying just a few hundred dollars more to sit beside me.
I've tried the paid upgrade route of Malaysia Airlines once, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. So I've stopped flying on MH since that horrible experience.
PS : Well..I sound like a jerk... But it's how I feel honestly.
I've tried the paid upgrade route of Malaysia Airlines once, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. So I've stopped flying on MH since that horrible experience.
PS : Well..I sound like a jerk... But it's how I feel honestly.
May 24, 2014, 2:41 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
In common with what some other airlines are already doing, CX are now looking at introducing an online based platform which will give members and customers the chance to buy single sector, one cabin upgrades to either Premium Economy and Business Class cabins. Customers would be invited to place an offer for their booked flights via a website prior to their departure date. If their offer was successful they would be advised around 4 days prior to departure and the offer payment collected.
This is what I can imagine if the proposed happens:
1. Revenue will be dropped for PEY and J. The loss will come from those passengers (mostly with status) who have control of the travel budget (like consultants or freelancers). To those passengers, 10% of mileage bonus does not really matter. By allowing bidding, I have given excuses for my customers not to buy the premium fares, but expect a buy-up.
2. There will be more complaint and congestion at AM, since I will prioritize buy-up over upgrade. In this case, my customers will have more difficulties using miles.
3. I will open up for buy-up speculation - as I do not collect the buy-up fee at once. So my customers can guess what is my lowest offer.
4. Based on #1, I have alienated my loyal customers. I may suffer more loss if the offers received are unsatisfactory and I end up op-up again. It will be a double loss.
In this case, I will rather implement something else, such as:
a. Baggage fee (if my ultimate goal is to generate more income);
b. A published upgrade policy (mile and op-up), like prioritizing upgrade based on original fare classes and then status.
May 24, 2014, 3:09 am
#27
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Asia
Programs: KF Gold | IHG Amb | SPG LTG | HH Gold
Posts: 548
Even though I'm no MPC, the proposal is a No to me.
Don't bother with bidding, leave the extra seats for your loyal customers.
The paying customers in front are the ones who you need most.
The current topping up the differences using cash make sense - or maybe open up an option to upgrade using miles... but no no to bidding please.
Don't bother with bidding, leave the extra seats for your loyal customers.
The paying customers in front are the ones who you need most.
The current topping up the differences using cash make sense - or maybe open up an option to upgrade using miles... but no no to bidding please.
May 24, 2014, 3:46 am
#28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 755
Seems a yes and no to me.
If this is implemented, unless the hit rate for successful bid is so low, I will stop purchasing J ticket for regional routes and F for long haul route, but instead buy Y and J instead - its not a problem to be at an exit row in Y for a few hours nor in J for 10+ hours.
Givenop-up, which is the highest valued benefit for CX pax comparing to other OW FFP, will be highly unlikely, I think my dad will also move away from MPC and has his miles bank to BAEC which gives a higher burn rate.
I would say allowing some ineligible fare to upgrade with miles at check-in sounds a bit better to me.
If this is implemented, unless the hit rate for successful bid is so low, I will stop purchasing J ticket for regional routes and F for long haul route, but instead buy Y and J instead - its not a problem to be at an exit row in Y for a few hours nor in J for 10+ hours.
Givenop-up, which is the highest valued benefit for CX pax comparing to other OW FFP, will be highly unlikely, I think my dad will also move away from MPC and has his miles bank to BAEC which gives a higher burn rate.
I would say allowing some ineligible fare to upgrade with miles at check-in sounds a bit better to me.
May 24, 2014, 10:25 am
#29
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: BA, AA, SQ, UA, AC, WS, MR TIT
Posts: 8,659
May 24, 2014, 11:12 am
#30
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: CX MPC, Aeroplan, Starwood, Hyatt
Posts: 123
This time I will play the Devil's Advocate - I will pretend I am the CX senior management.
This is what I can imagine if the proposed happens:
1. Revenue will be dropped for PEY and J. The loss will come from those passengers (mostly with status) who have control of the travel budget (like consultants or freelancers). To those passengers, 10% of mileage bonus does not really matter. By allowing bidding, I have given excuses for my customers not to buy the premium fares, but expect a buy-up.
2. There will be more complaint and congestion at AM, since I will prioritize buy-up over upgrade. In this case, my customers will have more difficulties using miles.
3. I will open up for buy-up speculation - as I do not collect the buy-up fee at once. So my customers can guess what is my lowest offer.
4. Based on #1, I have alienated my loyal customers. I may suffer more loss if the offers received are unsatisfactory and I end up op-up again. It will be a double loss.
In this case, I will rather implement something else, such as:
a. Baggage fee (if my ultimate goal is to generate more income);
b. A published upgrade policy (mile and op-up), like prioritizing upgrade based on original fare classes and then status.
This is what I can imagine if the proposed happens:
1. Revenue will be dropped for PEY and J. The loss will come from those passengers (mostly with status) who have control of the travel budget (like consultants or freelancers). To those passengers, 10% of mileage bonus does not really matter. By allowing bidding, I have given excuses for my customers not to buy the premium fares, but expect a buy-up.
2. There will be more complaint and congestion at AM, since I will prioritize buy-up over upgrade. In this case, my customers will have more difficulties using miles.
3. I will open up for buy-up speculation - as I do not collect the buy-up fee at once. So my customers can guess what is my lowest offer.
4. Based on #1, I have alienated my loyal customers. I may suffer more loss if the offers received are unsatisfactory and I end up op-up again. It will be a double loss.
In this case, I will rather implement something else, such as:
a. Baggage fee (if my ultimate goal is to generate more income);
b. A published upgrade policy (mile and op-up), like prioritizing upgrade based on original fare classes and then status.
They should consider lowering the fares of PEY, J and F on routes that do not fill up well. Lowering fares may sell extra seats giving them more revenue than the bidding system, instead of leaving it empty at a higher price.
If they go ahead with this bidding system, CX may further cut cost to PEY, J and F, since it cost less to get into PEY, J and F. More downgrades in meal quality (which is already bad), products and services.