ffs852

Guys, think about it, your employer is willing to pay J fares because they want to alleviate the stress of flying and give you some peace of mind and comfort before (or after) your business appointments abroad.

If the airline cannot offer you a J seat, and on the basis that your company allows you to travel in J, IMHO it is perfectly correct to keep the compensation, since you're flying in Y whereas the company allowed J class travel and you are not putting additional cost to your employer's expenses.

Would you tell your employer if you were INVOL bumped off the flight due to an oversold situation, and got some MCOs/cash as compensation?

Cygnus X-1

That's right, so long as the employee is getting paid enough and treated right. That's why I switched from being the employee to the business owner. Much better life. More flexibility. Endless possibilities to life long success and passion. ^

If the company you were working for treated you right and paid you well, "I" would then ask the employer if "I" could keep it and be honest.

B Watson

CLEARLY you miss my point - my comment about theft and scam are NOT targeted at you but at anyone who advocates perpetrating fraud on their employer.

ffs852

If the employee in question is voluntarily downgrading their J tickets to Y and pocketing the difference in cash/MCO, then YES this is fraud. I know a lot of bankers and consultants who do this.

HKTraveler

I really don't see it as black and white as B Watson does. There are some critical differences between unused business inventories and personal-related expenses. Of course we can all come up with examples that argue for the answers we want. What about the following situation? You went to a business dinner and doggie bagged some of the food home since you weren't able to finish your portion. Would you then pay your company for that portion of food? Do you ever send or receive personal emails on your corporate account? Would you then ask your back office to split the bandwidth and server costs so that they can charge you accordingly? Or are these frauds as well?

And thank you for reminding us that you are the boss and your company's high ethical standards. That is certainly impressive. But it would also be nice if you can see and consider the other side of the story too.

B Watson

Based on your examples below, you might want to work a bit harder on that concept

I just do not see what is so complicated about understanding this - in your examples these IS NO CASH REFUND!!!! Unless the restaurant is going to refund you back for your uneaten food, it is a totally non-squitor example.



Thanks for the personal dig - just for the record, I did not come directly from the womb to owning a global company - yes I did work for someone for over 10 years who, coincidentally, paid international F and I traveled every bit as much as I do now during the time - I can assure you I would not have remained employed had a pulled a stunt like this.

B Watson

And if you, in your sole and absolute discretion decided that you were not paid enough or treated well enough you would do the dishonest thing? (the corollary of your point using your word not mine)

This has been the age old excuse of embezzlers for generations - "I just took what I should have been paid in the first place"

I can not actually believe that you did mean to say this so if I have simply misunderstood you might want to edit the post to make it clear - it have read it 3 times and this REALLY is they way I am reading what you are saying, which again, I am sure is an error on my part.

eamus

Not exactly voluntary downgrade, but the principle is the same and I had a similar experience to jchand's brother several years ago. Employer cancelled a holiday I had booked, refunded me the ticket cost (it was a self-funded trip) and asked me for the tickets "to see if they could get anything back from the airline." [Side note this is long before FT and me actually reading airline Ts&Cs.] Two months later boss stops by to shoot the breeze and mentioned in passing that the airline gave them no love, which now makes sense since the ticket was in my name and purchased by me. Two months after that I get a handy recharge on my credit card representing the ticket price. Potential for the perfect crime: boss under the impression nothing can be done, I end up with double money. I wrote them a cheque for the amount, which the boss promptly handed back to me with the comment that I should consider it a bonus. End result is a grateful employer, huge points for honesty, and an employee as happy as one can be when a holiday is cancelled.

Cygnus X-1

No, no, no. If I was an employee and wasn't treated or paid correctly, I wouldn't be working there, so how could I rip them off. That is the concept I'm projecting. Any company providing CX F or J is treating their employee correctly, IMHO. Does that make sense?

JHunter

Agreed, which is why a former company's policy never made any sense to me. They would pay for J travel, but as policy offered to split the difference with the employee if they chose to travel Y. Guess they considered J as a perk for the employee rather than something that brought the company any benefit?

As a side issue, I've always liked the idea of a per-diem for meals. I'm very happy having the company set a fixed maximum for reimbursement, but don't want to have to limit the choice to "eat higher" if desired. I am more than willing to pay the difference myself, but it's virtually impossible to do on a traditional expense report so I normally just eat the entire cost (and the meal!) myself and avoid the hassle.

Richelieu

Do you really think that travelling or F brings any benefit to the company? (not a sarcasm, it's really a question...) Some managers may think that travelling in Business will allow the employee to rest and be more efficient upon arrival. But most of the time, after a long haul flight, the employee will not start working immediately anyway and take the time to have a rest before an important meeting.

On the other hand, buying J or F seat as an incentive for execs is a good idea (and would not be subject to income tax ). I know I wouldn't work for a company expecting me to stand happily in Y on long haul flights.

To stay on topic, if an employee has a J ticket, and the airline asks him to be downgraded, he has 3 choices, not 2 :

* Accept, and give the money back to the company ;
* Accept, and keep the money for himself ;
* Decline, and be bumped to next flight.

Case 1 is very virtuous of him. He is suffering from lack of sleep and potential thrombosis to save his company's money.

Case 2 is mixed. Of course, it doesn't seem right to keep the money. But why would the employee be expected to fly Y when he got a J ticket ?

So the only choice is 3, take the next flight. You will travel quietly, and you won't be accused of theft.

Most restaurant I have seen will be happy to provide you with a receipt for "1 full meal, excluding beverages" with whatever amount you want (unless it's more than what you've paid) to fit your need.

B Watson

I see where you were going - I just read it differently and I was sure that was not the point you were making!!

B Watson

We have now implemented a similar approach for hotels - each city has an allowance - we have contracts with certain hotels but if you can find a better deal or a preference or a chain where you have privileges, you can do anything you want within the allowance. It seems fair to me and I am glad that you like that approach!! Some people really do not get it!

Darren

Regardless of whether I think this is theft, a scam, a perk, or whatever other words were used, I think that your brother(?) needs to make a decision of whether his job is worth the amount that Cathay gave him. Consider the potential consequenses of not telling and of the company finding out. Moreover, depending on the amount, there could even be some tax consequenses as well. I dont think that witholding the information is right from a personal point of view, but I think that even if I did I would mention it because I wouldnt think it was worth my job. Or more appropriately, if I caught one of my employees voluntarily downgrading and keeping the compensation without telling me or the company, I would most certainly discipline them. Not because of the money, but to discourage the practice. Chances are good that after the fact if his job performance didnt suffer that his manager will just tell him to keep it quiet and not do it again. Just my 2 cents.

milehighj

in a (very conservative) company which i used to work for, it was commonly accepted practice for employees with business class travel benefits to 'cash in' their tickets and use the quantum to fly themselves and their spouses in Y.

of course this only happened for conference travel, rather than cases where time and work-critical meetings took place.