Is there any method to choose or view which flying class code ahead of time?
 

Hi all,

I travel on Cathay Pacific quite a number of times. I do chase flyer status so I try to accumulate as much status points and Asia miles as possible.

During a round trip flight from JFK to HKG, I booked economy flex but unfortunately did not earn 100% status points for the booking. I found out later that booking class was the main reason why Cathay did not award 100% status points! But my family and I all booked economy flex! It wasn’t economy light.

With all that in mind, I would like to ask you all:

1. Which flying classes are considered full economy? Which are considered discount economy?
   
2. What determines the flying class code?? Since economy flex is the most expensive of the three economy classes, why was my ticket still considered discount economy??
   
3. Are consumers able to view which flying class code is assigned to them before ticket purchase?? Is there any way to select the flying class code online?
   

Your feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

CX shows booking class just before you confirm your booking. When on the payment webpage, choose all your flights, then it should prompt you with all the status points etc. Click "show more" (or similar i forgot the exact wording) then it should show Class x under the equipment listed to operate the flight.

For Econ Light, Essential, Flex etc, they do not affect the fare class. They only affect the fare basis (the 8 digit code that most people don't know what it means). For example, Econ Light shows as xx21xxxx and Econ Flex shows as xx41xxxx. You could buy Fare Class Q with Econ Flex and that would still be considered discount economy. HOWEVER, Econ Flex does affect the amount of status points you earn, which can be seen either during purchase or from the status point calculator on the CX webpage.

On the topic of fare classes, I'm not 100% sure but I think its as follows:
S,N,Q,O: Discount Economy
M,L,V: Economy
Y,B,H,K: Full Economy

Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense or if anyone more experienced can provide a better explanation.

thank you for your reply. So there’s no way to select the specific class code during booking? It’s assigned randomly by the system?

You can, but you cannot do it on the web. You will need to call ticketing and request for specifically ticketing into the applicable subclass when flying Econ.

You've got two unrelated questions in there (the second one is flat inorrect).

To the first question, you can't really "select" it online, although you can try and force it to different fare classes by selecting different types of fares (Flex, etc.). Still, you will only find out what subfareclass it is when you click all the way through as CXFlyerBoy says. If you must insist on a certain sub fareclass, then you have to do it via the call center. I am less familiar with Y, but I know in J you can realistically get enough optionality via the options (Flex is always J or C, and the few below it generally bucket into D, P or I). I understand from here economy has more and is a bit more complex but there may be some logic to the wording.

The second question, no it's definitely not random.

Economy fare class doesn't change by the type of ticket. It just removes the restriction(s).

Econ Fare class Q can be in the following fare basis:
QR21WCAR: Economy Light
QR31WCAR: Economy Essential
QR41WCAR: Economy Flex

The above doesn't apply for business class (as you just said) because J Flex is always in the fare class J,C and Essential in D,P,I.

And I'm pretty sure you cannot force a specific fare class code online. Must be done via online CSEconomy fare class doesn't change by the type of ticket. It just removes the restriction(s).

Econ Fare class Q can be in the following fare basis:
QR21WCAR: Economy Light
QR31WCAR: Economy Essential
QR41WCAR: Economy Flex

The above doesn't apply for business class (as you just said) because J Flex is always in the fare class J,C and Essential in D,P,I.

And I'm pretty sure you cannot force a specific fare class code online. Must be done via CS

https://www.reddit.com/r/CathayPacific/s/2TrENG9LwC

https://www.reddit.com/r/CathayPacific/s/EpFDurbOud

Econ in theory has 3 times the same bucket ie S lite, essential and flex. The complexity is that all three bins must sell out in the same subclass before they move up to the next subclass

In terms of pricing, will the cost differ? If yes, how much? I assume that that the subclasses sell at different prices given the different SP given(?)

for some reason, I can’t read some of your text because it’s highlighted I believe(?). I’m on a black background right now. Can’t read parts of your message.

that’s bad.. not a simple and convenient process then

sorry. None of us here work for RevOps

For what? Business exist for the sole purpose of maximising revenue

That’s true but I’m a consumer, a traveler and not a Cathay shareholder. I’ve been traveling with Cathay for 20 years and I think me and many travelers deserve more transparency. This is not displayed upright during checkout and definitely an inconvenience for most people.

it is indeed displayed at checkout!

I agree it is annoying that you have to click all the way through to see it. Fully aligned here.

but the idea it’s not displayed just isnt right. The subfare class is visible if you click on the fare terms and conditions at checkout.

I think many posters here for the purposes of checking fares and booking tickets etc wish it was visible early in the process not at the very end. Thats all

and if you want to target a specific subfare, then you might need to call ticketing instead of online . That isn’t that hard. Annoying, yes agree (although not that relevant for most people honestly). but this isn’t some conspiracy against consumers

[Deleted, I misunderstood where OP was crediting to]

Can CX GCC do it? Not TAs only? I might have misspoken on Reddit if yes.

MH has the same practice and better still, don't even let you see the subclass until ticket is issued, so CX is not alone. Life wasn't supposed to be made easy when one flies peasant's class. So most of us just have to suck it up, exhale in despair and move on.

Their own status (Elite Points) earn table is fare code-agnostic https://enrich.malaysiaairlines.com/...ning_Table.pdf

obviously you get my point. I said that it’s not displayed upright. Hidden until at the end of checkout.

Not necessarily. I take "upright" to mean unethical.If that's the case, I politely disagree. What MH does above, is pushing that boundary (you don't find out until ticketed). CX shows it to you at the end. This is inconvenient but not awful, and it doesn't change the fact that if you really want to target a fareclass, you just call them or a travel agent and book that way.

Ironically I am also annoyed by it. And it's also true, the econ fares are clearly more complicated than J and F. But I don't think it's some unethical CX anti-consumer thing as you may be implying. It's my belief that those of us on FT are in the minority of bookers. Even my secretary whose job this technically is (in reality, I like booking a lot of my own tickets), she can't be bothered with sub fareclasses as I am out of sheer interest / hobby. She has better things to worry about. The majority of the traveling public I think are better served by the more simple names CX has in plain English, even though it's annoying for us.

It might just be a difference of opinion.

Honestly this is a policy and transparency issue. Life is certainly easier if you can afford to fly first class. But not the majority of travelers can. That’s why we have only a handful of first class seats on the plane. I guarantee you that the majority of travelers have never flown first or business class before. The responsibility and the “suck it up, move on with life” attitude shouldn’t be placed on the underprivileged travelers flying on the peasant class.

It’s honestly a simple fix with displaying the class code during flight selection. I don’t think that will cost millions of dollars in business revenue.

Obviously the business owner will do whatever that makes minimum business sense and easiest to implement for them
The same reason why they introduced more perks at the top. They are not after the vast majority which does not bring them the corresponding revenue

Your request has been logged in my my tech road map for airport tycoon 2044

AFAIK, CX website booking only displays the cheapest available class. I think it makes sense because if they display all the options of Discount Economy, Economy, Full Economy (three classes), and each class coming with three fare types (lite, essential, flex), there would be 9 combinations for costumers to choose. It will probably complicate things for 95% of the costumers IMO.

Maybe it’s my choice of words that is leading to our difference of opinion.

I meant upright as in “stands straight up”.
Outright is actually the term that is more suitable in this context.

I get your point.

It’s just annoying like you said to have to figure out all these fare subclasses. I am more tech savvy than my parents and so I can assist them now that we know how the system works.

But for the other travelers, especially the elderly and individuals that are not informed, it’s not as easy for them to navigate through the FF process.

Maybe it’s a good suggestion that I can provide to Cathay. List the sub fare class during flight selection. List the number of Asia Miles and status points that can be earned prior to checkout.
These are predetermined values and it shouldn’t cost millions of dollars in revenue to display online.

With advancements in technology, life should be made easier for all classes of travelers. I’ll have to call CS now to secure a certain fare class. Very tedious when you are booking multiple tickets at one time.

I can’t read some of your text. What’s with the font color change?
I had to copy and paste your text onto another place.

Based on your reply, if that’s the case, why do we have 9 different subfare classes in the first place? What’s the purpose for subdividing all the fare classes? Seems like it’s a type of confusopoly then if travelers are not informed.

[Replaced by https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/37377128-post35.html ]

All that effort just to chase SL for what? Lounge access and a bowl of dandan noddles?
Over the increment of paying how much more for full-economy fares over the course of a yr?

Anyways, OP hope this chart clears it up for you as you mention you fly from JFK:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...23c6ed33cd.jpg

It's how different price levels are filed in the GDS.

It may be possible to force the next highest fare class online by using another browser to make some dummy bookings that fill up the lower buckets

Just because there's advancements in technology, it doesn't necessarily mean better outcomes for the customer.

I've just tried skiing in my home state (NSW). I haven't done this since my uni years.
I realised what a fool I was.
I was penalised multiple times for not booking the connection bus the day before online/the ski pass the day before online/ski rentals the day before online. I really thought I was a 来都来了 sucker for the Chinese male prostitute a few months back.

Similarly (those who've been around knows my interest in credit card promos https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...2-onwards.html )

1. I would love for HK banks to allow third party spend tracking so I know when I am approaching a promotion spend cap or not yet reached a promotion spend floor. Would the HK banks' like CCB allow a API? Dream on...
(there was a proposal from 2018 https://www.hkma.gov.hk/eng/key-func...anking-sector/ - but it was just that. It's not mandatory adoption)

2. Lots of banks are trying to limit their promotion outlay by MCC restrictions now.
There was a Visa MCC lookup tool during the pandemic http://www.visa.com/supplierlocator-...pplier-locator . Most useful thing ever.
Of course it was too good to last and Visa took it away 6 months' after release https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards...ooking_up_mcc/ and https://www.uscardforum.com/t/topic/51723

For those who bleat "AI is the future/AI will revolutionise everything/AI will change ..." I ask - how are we supposed to get our hands on the info to feed AI? Can AI model information withheld by parties we're forced to work with?

My missus now analogises my pursuit of status without organic earn with how Chiikawa critters (specifically, Mononga) pursue free food.

@OP how many SP did you earn, & how many were you expecting to earn?
The screenshot above stipulates your deserved share of SPs

Toggle in the three bar icon on the top left corner (both desktop or mobile)

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tech...dark-mode.html

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...d2bf328518.png

(Edited 5pm) Not particularly customer friendly.
In fact, I will analogise it to QR/AY unbundling lounge from Business.

AY/QR Business Lite
Previous practice: Business means lounge
New Enhanced (Elevated) practice: Business means seat only - buy lounge separately (and in outports, not particularly easy to add on)

CX Light/Essential/Flex
Previous practice: fare buckets reflect demand, but higher fare buckets get better status earn and booking benefits e.g. free cancel
New Enhanced (Elevated) practice: fare buckets reflect demand, but booking benefits are unbundled. Also if you care about status earn, you're going to put in more work/$$$ to ensure you end up in the correct fare code (with the additional fare not necessarily yielding booking benefits)

If the concern is Status Points earned, each fare shows AM & SP for that specific fare type.

I can’t read some of your text. What’s with the font color change? - Not sure where went wrong it looks all good on my side.

What’s the purpose for subdividing all the fare classes? - Optimize revenue of course. The assumption is that the mass majority of customers are price sensitive (especially in Y cabin). As the airline operator, you definitely don't want scare away potential customers by not display the most attractive discounted economy ticket when 90 pct of the seats are still empty.
Yes, you can argue CX should display all 9 options I listed, but what motives to do so? 1. Not everyone has the patience or cares enough to choose which ticket is to their benefits, too much information is not generally good for locking in tickets; 2. Why risk exposing subclass inventories?

They already optimise revenue by class of travel and unbundling of rebooking options.

Hiding the fare code seems like cost avoidance ie CX is trying to get away with paying for status benefits (or incurring its own)

Not revenue optimisation IMO, as they aren’t keen to make it easy for people to pay for it.

Consumers now have to be extremely careful these days when they want to do mileage upgrades from Y (amongst other things like increased miles).

In the past, if your Y fare class was M or above, you'd be eligible of mileage upgrade. These days you've actually got to pay attention to whether your fare is considered "Econ Light", "Econ Essential", or "Econ Flex". Only the latter two are eligible for mileage upgrades.

Nowadays, sometimes M is considered "Econ Essential", and sometimes it's considered "Econ Light". One can easily be fooled into thinking they are eligible for a mileage upgrade when buying M-class when in reality they are being booked into "Econ Light" which isn't eligible. So my take is instead of being fixated on what the exact fare-class is, perhaps it might be better to focus on whether you're booking Light, Essential or Flex instead.

This change in fare class presentation took me a while to get adjusted at first, but I can't quite say it's a bad thing now. These names seem easier to remember than the fare class codes if you aren't familiar with them.

Same concept applies to Y+ and J.

I don't think that's true - but maybe I have misinterpreted what you wrote.

If there is availability in the "S" bucket, it can be sold in any of the three "flavours" lite, essential and flex.

Once the "S" bucket is exhausted, the system will then only offer the next-cheapest economy bucket - which again can be sold in any of the three "flavours" lite, essential and flex.

It is not the case that they must sell a defined number of S lite AND a defined number of S essential AND a defined number of S flex tickets; there is ony one bucket for "S", and if there is availability in that bucket, each available "S" seat can be sold as any of lite, essential or flex.

For example, if a particular flight allows 22 seats to be sold in "S", then any of the following are possible:
22 "S" lite tickets
15 "S" lite tickets, 5 "S" essential tickets, 2 "S" flex tickets
...or any othe combination of the three "flavours" until the allocation of 22 "S" seats has been exhausted for that flight