JFK<->HKG no longer polar flights?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,477
JFK<->HKG no longer polar flights?
I was looking for flights going over the North Pole, and remembered that CX 841/844 flights usually take that route. I checked out the recent routes from flightradar24 (free version) to have an idea how close to the pole they get. To my surprise, none of the recent flights went over the arctic ocean. In fact they all carefully avoided mainland China and Russian airspace in either direction. Does anyone know the explanation for such strange routing?
#2
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: AAdvantage Asia Miles Air China
Posts: 870
Without knowing the exact reason, here is some background on overflight fees.
The first routes over the North Pole were Polar One and Polar Two which tracked over Russian Federation and China airspace opening up these shorter routes. However these are very expensive in terms of overflight fees, which in the Russian case I believe goes straight into the pocket of Aeroflot. There is some interesting background information on the internet.
I have done the commute HKG-NYC-HKG on more occasions than I care for, and quite often the HKG-NYC eastbound has taken the route shown on flightradar, and rarely gone over the North Pole. However for the return NYC-HKG it has occasionally gone polar but more often flies Northeast over Greenland then onwards to Spitzbergen, crosses the Barents Sea north of the North Cape, over Novaya Zemlya ('famous' for the site of the largest ever nuke explosion 'Tsar Bomba'), before heading southeast towards Siberia, Xinjiang onwards to HK.
The Russians can play funny sometimes (ask American Airlines). Also it is at this time of year the PLA Air Force conduct their major exercises, especially in the Nanjing Military Region, which could be a contributing factor in planning routes. These usually continue on until mid-November.
The first routes over the North Pole were Polar One and Polar Two which tracked over Russian Federation and China airspace opening up these shorter routes. However these are very expensive in terms of overflight fees, which in the Russian case I believe goes straight into the pocket of Aeroflot. There is some interesting background information on the internet.
I have done the commute HKG-NYC-HKG on more occasions than I care for, and quite often the HKG-NYC eastbound has taken the route shown on flightradar, and rarely gone over the North Pole. However for the return NYC-HKG it has occasionally gone polar but more often flies Northeast over Greenland then onwards to Spitzbergen, crosses the Barents Sea north of the North Cape, over Novaya Zemlya ('famous' for the site of the largest ever nuke explosion 'Tsar Bomba'), before heading southeast towards Siberia, Xinjiang onwards to HK.
The Russians can play funny sometimes (ask American Airlines). Also it is at this time of year the PLA Air Force conduct their major exercises, especially in the Nanjing Military Region, which could be a contributing factor in planning routes. These usually continue on until mid-November.
Last edited by Nicc HK; Aug 17, 2020 at 6:10 am
#4
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Pilot friends say you set the plane into the jet stream and it gets blown to your destination.
#6
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: AAdvantage Asia Miles Air China
Posts: 870
I know the wind influences ocean currents at sea level which run southwest from the Bering Strait along the Kamchatka Peninsular (An amazing sight if lucky enough to get a day flight together with clear weather)
#7
Join Date: Mar 2017
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I am curious (I am a non-commercial pilot), but would winds aloft explain westbound NYC-HKG, that goes against the prevailing wind patterns at higher altitudes?
I know the wind influences ocean currents at sea level which run southwest from the Bering Strait along the Kamchatka Peninsular (An amazing sight if lucky enough to get a day flight together with clear weather)
I know the wind influences ocean currents at sea level which run southwest from the Bering Strait along the Kamchatka Peninsular (An amazing sight if lucky enough to get a day flight together with clear weather)
#8
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,477
For the flights going west against the prevailing wind direction, I can't imagine that avoiding the polar route would somehow save on fuel. However that could be done with the opposite intent -- i.e. to test endurance and limits of the new aircraft (A351). Still that's typically the job of Airbus, not a customer airline with paying pax on board. Any "wind" theory along would also not explain such persistent avoidance of Russian and Chinese airspace.
Nicc HK's ideas from Post 2 make sence (i.e. Russian overflight fees, and air force priorities). I suspect those conditions would not affect CX alone. What other airlines normally fly the polar route, and are any of those flights still operating right now? They might provide the confirmation for or against the above hypothesis.
Nicc HK's ideas from Post 2 make sence (i.e. Russian overflight fees, and air force priorities). I suspect those conditions would not affect CX alone. What other airlines normally fly the polar route, and are any of those flights still operating right now? They might provide the confirmation for or against the above hypothesis.
#9
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 331
For the flights going west against the prevailing wind direction, I can't imagine that avoiding the polar route would somehow save on fuel. However that could be done with the opposite intent -- i.e. to test endurance and limits of the new aircraft (A351). Still that's typically the job of Airbus, not a customer airline with paying pax on board. Any "wind" theory along would also not explain such persistent avoidance of Russian and Chinese airspace.
Nicc HK's ideas from Post 2 make sence (i.e. Russian overflight fees, and air force priorities). I suspect those conditions would not affect CX alone. What other airlines normally fly the polar route, and are any of those flights still operating right now? They might provide the confirmation for or against the above hypothesis.
Nicc HK's ideas from Post 2 make sence (i.e. Russian overflight fees, and air force priorities). I suspect those conditions would not affect CX alone. What other airlines normally fly the polar route, and are any of those flights still operating right now? They might provide the confirmation for or against the above hypothesis.
#10
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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After little reseach on Flightradar24, I found that in recent days EK215 DXB-LAX and QR739 DOH-LAX have taken a polar route, but the corresponding return flights do have taken more southern routing and I believe that sort of routing has been used also on these flights earlier, so there is no guarantee that you will experience polar routing also on future flights. And of course, routing between JFK and HKG via DOH/DXB and LAX might be quite a detour...
#11
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I flew AA DFW-HKG quite a few times. Sometimes, mainly in winter, AA would go over the North Pole but return over Japan and Alaska a week later. So jet stream does play a big role in those flights.
#12
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Good to know, thanks. IIRC the one time world's longest flight EWR-SIN traveled the polar route in both directions. But even then there are chances to get some help from air currents on parts of the route.
#13
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#14
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I have found that typically, in Northern Hemisphere winter season, westbound flights to Asia go over the pole, but returning eastbound flights stay more southerly, over the Pacific.
In summer, it's more of a tossup. Eastbound flights are still almost always oceanic. Westbound to Asia might not go directly over the pole, but typically are still routed on tracks farther north than eastbound flights.
In summer, it's more of a tossup. Eastbound flights are still almost always oceanic. Westbound to Asia might not go directly over the pole, but typically are still routed on tracks farther north than eastbound flights.
#15
Join Date: Aug 2016
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It's been mentioned before it's all about cost at the moment, fuel is cheap Russian overflight fees are not! Even in normal times a flight will only route on polar tracks if it justifies a significant time and fuel saving
Given the current situation might as well spend longer in the air, the significant (it is significant) extra cost of going Polar can not be justified.
Given the current situation might as well spend longer in the air, the significant (it is significant) extra cost of going Polar can not be justified.