I posted this question in Mileage Run but got no response, so I'll try here...

Does anyone have any experience of doing a same plane turnround in JFK, i.e. HKG-JFK-YVR which I have scheduled to do in a few weeks. Am I likely to enecounter any difficulties at JFK or, indeed at YVR when I return there since I will be in transit to DFW (arr YVR 02:45, dep to DFW at 07:15)?

Any advice gratefully received.

I have not done it (doubt anyone has), but you have a high chance of having some problems with Canadian customs. They are likely to interpret your stop in JFK as being for the sole purpose of picking up a package and dropping it in YVR and will demand to see what it is. When you can't produce it they might search harder. By contrast US customs is much more sensible and won't target you. The arrival time of CX into YVR is not to your advantage (the agents are bored, have no other flight to work for hours, and resent being on that shift, also you are likely to be the only passenger deplaning at YVR). Presumably you are flying in F, and Canadian customs loves to single out F passengers (that I know from experience). So expect some hassle and come prepared.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, because I have never been to Canada before. Why do I have to go through customs at all in YVR? Amn't I in international transit so I can stay airside?

Normally you cannot stay in transit in Canada when traveling to the US as the US immigration and customs inspection is done in Canada prior to boarding the plane (this allows Canada-US planes to land at US airports without customs facilities). Unless YVR has a special arrangement for US arrivals staying in transit to US departures (and how many of those are there in a year?), you will have to clear Canadian customs in order to get to the US INS/Customs inspection and board your plane to the US. Maybe the RCMP can meet you and escort you to the US checkpoint without entering Canada, but I suspect it cannot be done. Luckily you have a few hours between flights so probably you will make the DFW flight, but be prepared for problems. Also the US security level is Orange now which means special processing goes into affect and your itinerary may attract attention (if for no other reason than entering the US twice within 24 hours). Why don't you go JFK-SFO-DFW instead and save some grief?

If you explain you are doing the JFK thing for miles (why else would you do this), they will most likely understand and let you pass. From time to time you will get some person who just does not like the looks of your face and will send you to secondary and there is nothing you can do but smile and reexplain everything all over again.

The turn around in JFK should be very easy but you will need to clear US INS/customs and recheck back onto the outbound flight. When you arrive into Canada(at 2AM), all passengers heading to the US need to preclear US INS and customs and their counters will be shut down for the night. You will have two choices: 1)clear Canadian customs and hang out at the airport until you can check in for your DFW flight or 2)when you get off the plane, hand out in the long overhead walk//paths until the counter for US transfers opens up. I would not recommend this since there are no seats up there and security might come through and ask you what the heck you think you are doing.

Thanks for all the advice so far ...

Beacuase it's a Mileage Run! If I wanted to save grief I would fly HKG-HEL which is what my gf is doing to meet me there rather than:

HKG-JFK-YVR-DFW-ANC-DFW-ORD-LAX-LHR-CAI-LHR-HEL

over 100 hours, which is what I am doing.

(Because I have a DONE3 as my means of getting back to Europe - I originally needed to be in the US, but now I don't and it expires soon so I might as well do the six sector run - originally this was to keep my Diamond, but now CX has comped that it's just for the miles and to catsch up on a heap of books I've been meaning to read. Then I need to pick up a ticket to get back to HKG and the best way to do this is to go to CAI and get an AONE3.)

I was only doing SEA-YVR-JFK (on that day) and STILL caught hell from the Canadian immigration agent. Expect a lot of pointed questioning. Explain you're on a mileage run and have your ticket coupons available to show the agent. Not sure about all the agents but once I started going on about how many miles I was earning and how many places I was going for how little money (one of the oh-so-sorely-missed ex-JNB AONE5s) the guy quickly waved me onward. As for INS at JFK, the guy didn't even bother looking up at me... I swear, sometimes I think Canada makes up for their lack of military might with their immigration and customs agents!

Oh, my goodnesss! I see the situation here... HKG-JFK (with a YVR stopover) to US Customs at JFK, then JFK-YVR-DFW in which it is a Canadian Customs and a US Customs in the same airport at YVR as a connection! Oh dear, me!

Well, you can get through them, but yes, you will more than likely get scrutinized! YVR customs is the equivalent of a U.S.S.R. democracy. I also know, from experience, of getting scrutinized at YVR.

Number_6 in the village is correct. YVR has two customs depots in an agreement with Canadian and the US Government. Therefore the "loophole" that makes it a mess is doing what you have booked, christep. You will get through it, if you are clean.....but they will "test their system" on you. Even Sue Johansen can't get you out of that one!

I say make a small change on your itineary and make it a YVR stopover for a day or two as a tourist.

SHADO

[This message has been edited by SHADO (edited 05-23-2003).]

I understand that it is a mileage run, but is JFK-YVR-DFW that many more miles than JFK-SFO-DFW? I am all in favour of what you are doing, but I would not do JFK-YVR-DFW myself even with a few hundred dollars throw in as an inducement. Some things are just too difficult and dangerous to attempt. In my estimation you have a 10% chance of it going smoothly, 20% chance of missing the DFW flight, and 10% chance of being in YVR 24 hours later. Also a non-zero chance of being denied admission to the US, which would throw a wrench in your travel plans for a few years (the latter assumes US is still at Orange alert when you travel). Please investigate your options and make an informed choice.

12265*2.25 vs 8391 * 2.25 so 8716 miles more (4842 status miles).

You really think I have a 20% chance of being delayed so long at YVR that I miss a 4.5 hour connection?

The risk that bothers me is the turnround at JFK - then I only have 2.5 hours or so. I guess I can always reroute on the fly at JFK for $75 if need be.

I'm a reasonably regular visitor to the USA (twice a year or so) so I would really rather not be on a blacklist.

I guess I'll have to do a trip report

Christep, so you're going to do it? I'm really want to read the trip report! I wonder if YVR actually does have something that passes someone connecting from the US into the US? A side door perhaps? A trap door?

Please put the trip report here! :-)

SHADO

Sorry - I misread - the mileage comparison was HKG-SFO-DFW vs HKG-JFK-YVR-DFW.

The problem is that if I want to take HKG-JFK (to maximise CX time) then the only place I can useful get out of JFK to the same night is back to YVR I'm trying to avoid complete overnight stops on this run.

YVR used to have a direct connection from incoming flights to US immigration, a fact I discovered during the "limited industrial action" that canceled the New York leg of that trip.

Unfortunately...9/11 closed that it seems. I have asked, and have been told, that it is still closed.

(but what I'm told is not always right....)

Pardon me for asking, but Chris, why should you have to do a mileage run, since as I gather from your posts, you are a frequent traveller and have loads of miles? Is there any special advantage in doing that?

From the YVR Airport website:

International/U.S.A. Arrivals to U.S.A. Departures

There are two inspection processes available for International passengers transiting to U.S.A. Destinations. To find out which process you should follow, please ask your airline representative when checking in at your originating International departing point.

Option 1:
Allows passengers to bypass Canada Customs and Immigration.

Follow U.S.A. Connections signs to the escalators and stairs going down to a single baggage carousel. An airline coordinator stationed there will ensure that you have the correct documentation to enter into the In-Transit Pre-Clearance Facility.
Retrieve your baggage from the carousel and go through U.S. Customs and Immigration. Any additional passenger check-in requirements occur here.
Once through U.S. Customs, drop off your baggage and enter the U.S.A. security checkpoint to your designated departure gate.

You will not be required to pay the $10.00 Airport Improvement Fee.

Option 2:
Requires Canada Customs and Immigration clearance

Follow the Canada Arrivals signs to the Canada Arrivals Hall. Proceed through the Canada Customs and Immigration Preliminary Inspection Line.
To determine which carousel contains the baggage from your flight, check the baggage information display screens that are located on each carousel.
Proceed to the Secondary Inspection Line, where you will hand in your Canada Customs Declaration Form.
Beyond Canada Customs is the International Reception Lobby, where you can access the following services:


Foreign exchange and banking services
Air Canada and other domestic airline check-in counters
Tourism Info Centre
Cruise ship information counters


You may either:


Proceed through the automatic opening glass doors to the Public Meet and Greet area and follow the U.S.A. Departures signs to Departures Level of the International Terminal;
Take an elevator to the U.S.A. Departures check-in area on the Departures Level of the International Terminal.

Follow the U.S.A. Departures signs to the U.S.A. check-in area.