Thinking further on this, I think it isn't necessary to clear Canadian customs if you're in transit to JFK. You'll deplane into a transit lounge and then reboard to go on to JFK. Thus, no customs issues and no hitting Canadian customs twice. They might give you a hard time coming back through but not as much of one as if you cleared Canadian customs twice and US customs once in a day.

[This message has been edited by kanebear (edited 05-24-2003).]

My concern is not going through YVR the first time (although I will attempt to do that without passing into Canada), but the second time. And my real concern is the trunround at JFK.

I assume at JFK (which I do not know well) I can somehow stay airside in a transit facility? I guess CX might be able to help me with this since I will be transiting CX to CX.

AFAIK, there is no airside transfer in JFK. Everyone has to pass through US INS regardless of final destination. However, since CX flight arrives very late at BA terminal, the immigration should only take a few minutes. On somedays, I could hit taxi stand within 10 minutes. There is no exit immigration in JFK. I think you would need to go through INS, go upstairs for security check, then departure area. The entire process could be done in 10 minutes assuming no checked lugguage. The INS officer in YVR may be curious to know why you just passed JFK a few hours ago though.

One more thing, I don't think INS in YVR is open during the time when CX flight arrives from JFK. Option 1 from PointWasel may not work unless you want to hang around the INS waiting area for a few hours. The security may not allow it anyway. You may have no choice but to pass Canadian immigration, then go through US INS after it opens.

The INS line is shut down after the last flight to the US leaves. You will be forced to go through Candian customs. The front line person (sometimes they are customs agents) will mark your form if they want you to go through secondary and as long as you can explain the art of the mileage run they will give you no problems. They might even shake your hand and ask you if they can join you on your next run.

After reading all of this, I think you'll have no trouble going through YVR. They seem to scrutinize those who are actually staying in YVR, rather than a direct transfer for whatever the reasons. I wonder what the CX GA in HKG will say when she sees the itinerary? Good Luck, you'll be fine.

SHADO

I'm trying to get my TA to break up the itinerary to avoid that embarrassment

I always do this, too, when I have a rather 'embarrassing' itinerary like HKG-AKL and a return in one hour. I build two separate PNRs HKG-AKL and AKL-HKG. So that the agent in HKG (and another in AKL) will not notice that I am having a one-hour stopover and returning!

chris,

i thk the JFK turnaround should be ok.
it is the same airplane. it's got to park there for sometime, esp these days (to get disinfected).
US custom is not that bad (though JFK is not a good port ot enter US).

i would be more concerned on the YVR turnaround because they are different planes. (but it seems that you have much time to spend).

also, i think there is a reason to go JFK-YVR-DFW (vs JFK-SFO-DFW), it is CX plane/FA vs AA plane/FA!

btw, if you need to get some good sleep in YVR, the fairmont at the airport is very good. CX put me there once.

Don't worry about Canadian Customs giving you grief in YVR. In an absolute worst case scenario that will cost you an hour in secondary (because of the lack of traffic at that hour) and will release you into Canada by 4am at the latest. The US INS will open up around that time as well, so you shouldn't have too much wait time.

They key to avoiding scrutiny from Canadian Customs is to answer "TRANSIT" when asked the purpose of your trip and to fill out your customs card saying "1 DAY" for duration of stay. If they ask for details then provide them of course, but deluging them with info at the start is a sure way to confuse them and get yourself sent to secondary.

Don't sweat the YVR part of it. The Canucks tend to be very anal at times, but the end result is usually fine. I'd be more concerned about JFK.

Thanks for all this - can I ask what the OW lounges (AA/CX/BA) are like in YVR, and what time they open in the morning?

I feel the thing that will let this happen is that I am at JFK and YVR at hours when there is very little happening.

But it is the 1hr45 at JFK that worries me.

I guess an hour in "secondary" would be an interesting experience - I've never had anything like that in hundreds of international arrivals.

There's no AA lounge in the transborder area. Only AC or AS ones (no reciprocity with AA unless you're an AS lounge member). The BA and CX lounges are in the international departures area so you can't get to them from the transborder. The BA one does not open until late (since the BA flight to LHR leaves at 2030).

FWIW, if you want that extra few miles, can you fly HKG-YVR on 838/839 if operating or on the YYZ flight and then switch to 888/889? That's worth an extra 800 basic miles.

You are out of luck as far as lounges go on the transborder concourse unless you can bum an MLL pass off an Air Canada flyer.

AFAIK, there is only one daily HKG-YVR flight nowadays. It continues to YYZ as 828/829 on Mon, Tue, Thu and Sat and continues to JFK as 888/889 on Wed, Fri and Sun.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have all my 6 NA segments allocated and what you suggest would require one more. Looks like I have nowhere particular to go for four hours...

The CX schedules for late June are showing one per day to each of JFK and YYZ. Presumably the YYZ is with the tech stop in ANC since its duration is quite a bit shorter than the JFK with a real stop in YVR.

ANC is a goner, probably for good thanks to more posturing by the US officials in the name of "security" everytime the threat meter changes color.

Schedules change June 22. From that date, YYZ will run daily with a 343 and a 1 hour stop in YVR. JFK will also run daily with a 744 and a 1.5 hour stop in YVR. Full traffic rights HKG-YVR on both flights and on the YVR-JFK. No YVR-YYZ traffic of course.