API and dual citizenship
#31
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Did you enter the details of you Canadian passport during the check-in process? Gate agents will generally insist on seeing the same document entered / presented during check-in.
#32
Join Date: May 2018
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Actually, you probably don't. It is generally the case for countries that don't allow the voluntary acquisition of a second citizenship that such an act immediately removes your first citizenship. In other words, if you voluntarily acquired Canadian citizenship, your Country-A citizenship would have been revoked when this happened. That Country-A might not know about this yet, or that you still have the passport, doesn't matter.
You don't specify A, nor do you describe which citizenships you acquired how, but I think you might have a bigger problem on your hands than you suspect, and may have self-revoked your A citizenship.
You don't specify A, nor do you describe which citizenships you acquired how, but I think you might have a bigger problem on your hands than you suspect, and may have self-revoked your A citizenship.
#33
Join Date: May 2018
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Hello folks,
I have a dual citizenship of Canada and Country-A in Asia. Country-A doesn't allow dual citizenship, but nevertheless, I'm trying to see if I could hold both citizenship discreetly. Now, I'm planning to go back to Country-A this summer (with Air Canada) for a vacation using the following plan:
Departure:
1) Canada --> Country-A (with some airport transit in another country in between, no visa required since I'm just going to be stuck in the airport)
Return:
1) Country-A --> Country-B (Country-B does not require visa for citizens of Country-A)
2) Country-B --> Canada
I think I'm covered since I would never have to show my Canadian passport in Country-A at any time at all. However, I have some doubt about checking in with Air Canada (AC) for my departure:
1) If I use my Country-A passport (does not have any visa/PR card/permit for staying in Canada) for departure check-in, would AC staffs ask me for a valid residency permit in Canada (e.g. passport)?
2) If I use my Canadian passport for checking in, or if AC staffs demand that I show my Canadian passport, would they use that Canadian passport info for my API and send the API to Country-A border immigration?
Thanks in advance for any help/opinion/suggestion!
I have a dual citizenship of Canada and Country-A in Asia. Country-A doesn't allow dual citizenship, but nevertheless, I'm trying to see if I could hold both citizenship discreetly. Now, I'm planning to go back to Country-A this summer (with Air Canada) for a vacation using the following plan:
Departure:
1) Canada --> Country-A (with some airport transit in another country in between, no visa required since I'm just going to be stuck in the airport)
Return:
1) Country-A --> Country-B (Country-B does not require visa for citizens of Country-A)
2) Country-B --> Canada
I think I'm covered since I would never have to show my Canadian passport in Country-A at any time at all. However, I have some doubt about checking in with Air Canada (AC) for my departure:
1) If I use my Country-A passport (does not have any visa/PR card/permit for staying in Canada) for departure check-in, would AC staffs ask me for a valid residency permit in Canada (e.g. passport)?
2) If I use my Canadian passport for checking in, or if AC staffs demand that I show my Canadian passport, would they use that Canadian passport info for my API and send the API to Country-A border immigration?
Thanks in advance for any help/opinion/suggestion!
Canada to Malaysia
Don't bother yourself with multiple airlines if you don't have to. In Canada, book a ticket to Malaysia via Cathay Pacific, let's say, and use your Malaysian passport information.
When you check in, show the airline your Malaysian passport.
When you go through security to enter your terminal, show your Malaysian passport and boarding pass. Canada doesn't do exit stamps or checks on your status.
When you board the plane, show the gate airline agent your Malaysian passport.
Do the same in Hong Kong when you board your flight to Malaysia.
When entering Malaysia and going through immigration, show your Malaysian passport.
Malaysia to Canada
This will work a little differently.
When checking in at the airline in the Malaysian airport, show them your Malaysian passport (since it's the one that has the passport info) and show them your Canadian passport because it's proof that you're able to enter Canada.
When going through Malay exit immigration to enter the terminal, show them your Malay passport. Do NOT show them your Canadian passport as it's none of their business. All they're concerned about knowing your legal status in Malaysia.
When boarding the plane, show the airline gate agent your Canadian passport.
From Hong Kong and after, continue using your Canadian passport until you arrive in Canada, where you'll also show your Canadian passport.
It might be a little different if your name is different or differently spelled on both passports or if you're an asylee. Either way, you don't have to buy separate tickets, though you can if you want to be extra cautious, though it might stand to complicate things.
#34
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I have not read the Malaysian immigration act, but I'll bet that the act of acquiring Canadian citizenship automatically revokes Malaysian citizenship. That the person still holds a passport (which, by definition, is at that point invalid), is an anecdote.
#35
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Colorado (anywhere between DEN DMM BAH)
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That is a fairly naive stance. Of course no Canadian official is going to call his Malaysian counterpart to tell on someone (though it could happen). Think a bit more laterally; when you renew your Malaysian passport you will have to answer the question of whether you have acquired another citizenship, or whether you are a citizen of another country. Sure, you could lie, but that has consequences. What if you get stopped at Malaysian immigration next time you enter the country and are asked, or indeed searched? There are many permutations of these scenarios.
I have not read the Malaysian immigration act, but I'll bet that the act of acquiring Canadian citizenship automatically revokes Malaysian citizenship. That the person still holds a passport (which, by definition, is at that point invalid), is an anecdote.
I have not read the Malaysian immigration act, but I'll bet that the act of acquiring Canadian citizenship automatically revokes Malaysian citizenship. That the person still holds a passport (which, by definition, is at that point invalid), is an anecdote.
#36
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#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 8
Huh, so I guess airlines these days are super-cautious? It seems that your return ticket made them to check your entry eligibility into Canada, though technically they could just leave it to the people at UK airport that's going to check-in your return flight to Canada.
Another unlikely reason is that airline check-in counters somewhat double/help with CBSA (canadian border service agency) in monitoring border exit.
How do you check which passport is on the API btw?
Another unlikely reason is that airline check-in counters somewhat double/help with CBSA (canadian border service agency) in monitoring border exit.
How do you check which passport is on the API btw?
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 8
Since you have Malaysian and Canadian citizenship, here's what you do (this is all assuming you didn't get Canadian citizenship through asylum or anything and that your name is the same on both Canadian and Malaysian passports):
Canada to Malaysia
Don't bother yourself with multiple airlines if you don't have to. In Canada, book a ticket to Malaysia via Cathay Pacific, let's say, and use your Malaysian passport information.
When you check in, show the airline your Malaysian passport.
When you go through security to enter your terminal, show your Malaysian passport and boarding pass. Canada doesn't do exit stamps or checks on your status.
...............
.
Canada to Malaysia
Don't bother yourself with multiple airlines if you don't have to. In Canada, book a ticket to Malaysia via Cathay Pacific, let's say, and use your Malaysian passport information.
When you check in, show the airline your Malaysian passport.
When you go through security to enter your terminal, show your Malaysian passport and boarding pass. Canada doesn't do exit stamps or checks on your status.
...............
.
It seems using a proxy third country is the safest bet.
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
Huh, so I guess airlines these days are super-cautious? It seems that your return ticket made them to check your entry eligibility into Canada, though technically they could just leave it to the people at UK airport that's going to check-in your return flight to Canada.
Another unlikely reason is that airline check-in counters somewhat double/help with CBSA (canadian border service agency) in monitoring border exit.
How do you check which passport is on the API btw?
Another unlikely reason is that airline check-in counters somewhat double/help with CBSA (canadian border service agency) in monitoring border exit.
How do you check which passport is on the API btw?
#40
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Colorado (anywhere between DEN DMM BAH)
Programs: United MileagePlus, SkyMiles, AAdvantage, NEXUS
Posts: 3,030
Thanks, I was thinking about that. But then all these "rumors" about AC asking to see your proof of Canada residency (e.g. PR card, visa, passport) at check-in departure from Canada and AC sending API data (include passport) to country of destination make me unsure about your method above.
It seems using a proxy third country is the safest bet.
It seems using a proxy third country is the safest bet.
What I know is that only certain countries demand API and Malaysia isn't one of them. Malaysian authorities likely will not demand anything aside from seeing your Malaysian passport. If you book separate tickets and tell them you were in a third country this whole time, it stands to complicate things further.
A lot of this has to do with knowing people who have done similar extensive travel. Many of my friends are Saudi-Americans, and they book flights from the US to Saudi via a European airline and they use their Saudi passport info (mind you
Either that, or if you want to play it extra safe, fly into Singapore and enter Singapore using your Malaysian passport then get into Malaysia by land.
It might not make much of a difference if you book your ticket on either passport as long as you know which passports to present, but if you want to play it safe with Malaysian authorities, book it using your Malaysian passport.
Bottomline is: it's not that complicated so I don't advise you to complicate things with separate flights and separate legs of flights, and it'll go well.
Last edited by Nayef; Jun 6, 2018 at 12:08 pm Reason: added p.s.
#41
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PEK
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Posts: 8,958
The only way the Canadian gov't gets info about your departure is through API, so whatever you put in will go to the Canadian gov't. There's also a chance this info is shared with the other gov't, since the itinerary has the other government's airport on it.
#42
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 8
............
What I know is that only certain countries demand API and Malaysia isn't one of them. Malaysian authorities likely will not demand anything aside from seeing your Malaysian passport. If you book separate tickets and tell them you were in a third country this whole time, it stands to complicate things further.
A lot of this has to do with knowing people who have done similar extensive travel. Many of my friends are Saudi-Americans, and they book flights from the US to Saudi via a European airline and they use their Saudi passport info (mind youSaudi isn't a country that demands API edit: it's possible that Saudi demands API). Despite the API, U.S. authorities never asked them about their Saudi passports presumably on the API system whenever they landed in the States. They just show the proper passports at the proper times and they've been doing this for 20+ years. I imagine it's similar in Malaysia.
..........
What I know is that only certain countries demand API and Malaysia isn't one of them. Malaysian authorities likely will not demand anything aside from seeing your Malaysian passport. If you book separate tickets and tell them you were in a third country this whole time, it stands to complicate things further.
A lot of this has to do with knowing people who have done similar extensive travel. Many of my friends are Saudi-Americans, and they book flights from the US to Saudi via a European airline and they use their Saudi passport info (mind you
..........
Presentation - Passenger Data Toolkit
The data is from September 2013, and it seems that Saudi Arabia does require API, while Malaysia does not at that time.
#43
Join Date: Sep 2012
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This article seems to detail the legal position: https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nati...-holders-told/
Otherwise most of the posts in this thread are along the right lines - people operate under a don't ask don't tell policy,
Theoretically someone could analyse your passport stamps, but think about the average day in the life of a low-level government employee processing passport renewals, who can be bothered unless there is a specific directive or reward from higher up?
I know several Malaysians living in Australia who have become citizens but still keep and renew their Malaysian passports, but they go back to Malaysia frequently.
I have heard of spot checks by Imigresen at boarding gates in KUL - here you need to show your non-Malaysian passport! (This is just a visual check from what I have heard)
China (PRC) is a different case - if a government official discovers you have multiple passports, even by accident, they will force you to make a decision on the spot.
Otherwise most of the posts in this thread are along the right lines - people operate under a don't ask don't tell policy,
Theoretically someone could analyse your passport stamps, but think about the average day in the life of a low-level government employee processing passport renewals, who can be bothered unless there is a specific directive or reward from higher up?
I know several Malaysians living in Australia who have become citizens but still keep and renew their Malaysian passports, but they go back to Malaysia frequently.
I have heard of spot checks by Imigresen at boarding gates in KUL - here you need to show your non-Malaysian passport! (This is just a visual check from what I have heard)
China (PRC) is a different case - if a government official discovers you have multiple passports, even by accident, they will force you to make a decision on the spot.
#44
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Interesting. Although, if you had say a UK and Chinese passport, and you told them 'I want to keep the Chinese one' and they 'remove' your UK passport, you're still a UK citizen. Unless they just revoke the Chinese citizenship on the spot, which would work.