Continental members: lobbying against "new" BA EC qualifying fares ?
Aug 31, 2000, 11:13 am
#31
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 752
Well, another way of approaching this broader question is to ask what would happen if a US/UK Open Skies deal is arranged and oneworld can achieve the same kind of status as Star, so that BA/AA would more fully integrate their schedules and FFPs. As it stands, AA is far more generous than BA in the FFP department, since, among other things, it doesn't have the equivalent of tier points. Who would revamp? Would BA become more generous, or AA more restrictive?
Aug 31, 2000, 5:09 pm
#32
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Bristol,UK
Posts: 90
Who cares? AA are not relevant to most Europeans.
Anyway who I take it everyone moaning about the 25% v 100% buys there own tickets or pools the miles with the company if the company pays! Dream on guys, we are talking about accruing benefit for something purchased by someone else here so lets not moan too much. I agree with Merry, if you are that unhappy vote with your feet or find a way to bend your own company travel policy rules. Lobbying won't work with BA and the PR skin is fairly thick now after the recent disasters.
Anyway who I take it everyone moaning about the 25% v 100% buys there own tickets or pools the miles with the company if the company pays! Dream on guys, we are talking about accruing benefit for something purchased by someone else here so lets not moan too much. I agree with Merry, if you are that unhappy vote with your feet or find a way to bend your own company travel policy rules. Lobbying won't work with BA and the PR skin is fairly thick now after the recent disasters.
Aug 31, 2000, 5:17 pm
#33
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Bristol,UK
Posts: 90
PS I thought the UK was part of Europe so I have scant sympathy for any non UK - EC programme that is heading towards parity with the UK. I take it that yields from 'continental' Europe have now risen so the incentives are now less attractive to non UK members.
Hey Lord Gluck if you don't like BA try AF, at the very least try Sabena who seem to have competitive prices and now give a better service with the Swiss connection.
Given the French tag I take it that the loss of Air Liberte to Qualiflyer from the EC programme is not affecting your judgement. PPS Since I am sat in France writing this with a decent Borgogne for company please do not take this as a Gallic insult.
Hey Lord Gluck if you don't like BA try AF, at the very least try Sabena who seem to have competitive prices and now give a better service with the Swiss connection.
Given the French tag I take it that the loss of Air Liberte to Qualiflyer from the EC programme is not affecting your judgement. PPS Since I am sat in France writing this with a decent Borgogne for company please do not take this as a Gallic insult.
Aug 31, 2000, 5:25 pm
#34
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,065
Prof: Why would either of them have to change? BA/AA could leave things exactly as they are, and passengers decide which FFP is best for them.
One thing is for sure BA has established its strategy - its FFP will reflect that startegy - any changes with AA, KLM or anyone else
will not significantly effect that.
Nick
One thing is for sure BA has established its strategy - its FFP will reflect that startegy - any changes with AA, KLM or anyone else
will not significantly effect that.Nick
Sep 8, 2000, 9:47 pm
#35
Join Date: May 2000
Location: DXB
Programs: QF Plat QC Life Member; AA Plat; EK Silv; SPG Plat; Hyatt Diamond; Sirius (Jumeirah) Silver
Posts: 285
I know this thread was dead and buried but I am a little behind in reading FT...
One thing on the BA strategy, I fully understand the idea of maximising the profits by maximising premium passengers. However, is this a good LONG term strategy?
My company doesn't pay for J class - only the board and upper management on long hauls can fly anything but Y (err, realistically K/M/B etc). I have no problem with that.
However, us in the lower ranks today are the managers of tomorrow. If I would have to fly someone other than BA to get lower fares or mileage, I would loose over time brand affinity to BA. For example, were I to be based in our Brussels operation, I'd probably find myself constantly flying the AA code share on SN metal or only enough BA to get to LHR to take QF home. Consistently, I would not fly BA then over a time and be far less loyal to it. Of course, this is excepting the fact that I'd use QF as my FFP and get the mileage but slightly hypothetically speaking.
Similarly, if I was working out airlines for a corporate travel policy, I would look for an airline to cover all travel needs so we could organise mass discounts (20%+ seems to be frequent with coporate accounts with US airlines). If I relied on putting my lowerend workers in the back, I would be potentially stuck with the move away from discounted economy so choosing BA would be tough.
Sure I understand the fact that what they are doing makes great short and mid term sense. Upgrading the WT cabin was a good idea to perhaps lessen dissatisfaction and I look forward to travelling in it at the end of the year. However, I'm not convinced that its good in the long term. Often you need to have something in the bottom part of the market just to ensure success of your main product in the top half of the market.
Thoughts?
One thing on the BA strategy, I fully understand the idea of maximising the profits by maximising premium passengers. However, is this a good LONG term strategy?
My company doesn't pay for J class - only the board and upper management on long hauls can fly anything but Y (err, realistically K/M/B etc). I have no problem with that.
However, us in the lower ranks today are the managers of tomorrow. If I would have to fly someone other than BA to get lower fares or mileage, I would loose over time brand affinity to BA. For example, were I to be based in our Brussels operation, I'd probably find myself constantly flying the AA code share on SN metal or only enough BA to get to LHR to take QF home. Consistently, I would not fly BA then over a time and be far less loyal to it. Of course, this is excepting the fact that I'd use QF as my FFP and get the mileage but slightly hypothetically speaking.
Similarly, if I was working out airlines for a corporate travel policy, I would look for an airline to cover all travel needs so we could organise mass discounts (20%+ seems to be frequent with coporate accounts with US airlines). If I relied on putting my lowerend workers in the back, I would be potentially stuck with the move away from discounted economy so choosing BA would be tough.
Sure I understand the fact that what they are doing makes great short and mid term sense. Upgrading the WT cabin was a good idea to perhaps lessen dissatisfaction and I look forward to travelling in it at the end of the year. However, I'm not convinced that its good in the long term. Often you need to have something in the bottom part of the market just to ensure success of your main product in the top half of the market.
Thoughts?
Sep 9, 2000, 2:26 am
#36
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,065
bers: It is an interesting point to which no-one can answer at the moment.
However, there are a number of considerations:
Econ does and will continue to exist. I think you are exactly right in that BA have improved the service in Econ to make it more attractive and lessen the effect of their change of emphasis (strategy). But in reality the only negative changes they have made for Econ passengers is those on some dicounted fares will receive dicounted miles, and that there will be less avialability of heavily discouted fares.
I think that if you look specifically at the Corporate market, the question of FF mileage is not often a significant question to a corporate - although individual travellers may disagree.
With the recent changes to their commission structure BA has opportunity to offer Corps discounted fares at heavily discounted prices if they wish. If you have enough bargaining power, you can be sure that they will offer your company competitive route deals.
In the long term nodoby knows what will happen, BA may have alienated it future premium passengers, or it may build such a strong premium brand that people will fly it anyway.
Another consideration is that with the current level of mergers and alliances all this may change... within a short space of time we may see KLM become in effect BA's discount-economy arm, or with the strengthening of alliances which airline may become much less important than which alliance you travel on or have a Corporate agreement with.
But at the moment nobodt knows.
However, there are a number of considerations:
Econ does and will continue to exist. I think you are exactly right in that BA have improved the service in Econ to make it more attractive and lessen the effect of their change of emphasis (strategy). But in reality the only negative changes they have made for Econ passengers is those on some dicounted fares will receive dicounted miles, and that there will be less avialability of heavily discouted fares.
I think that if you look specifically at the Corporate market, the question of FF mileage is not often a significant question to a corporate - although individual travellers may disagree.
With the recent changes to their commission structure BA has opportunity to offer Corps discounted fares at heavily discounted prices if they wish. If you have enough bargaining power, you can be sure that they will offer your company competitive route deals.
In the long term nodoby knows what will happen, BA may have alienated it future premium passengers, or it may build such a strong premium brand that people will fly it anyway.
Another consideration is that with the current level of mergers and alliances all this may change... within a short space of time we may see KLM become in effect BA's discount-economy arm, or with the strengthening of alliances which airline may become much less important than which alliance you travel on or have a Corporate agreement with.
But at the moment nobodt knows.
Sep 9, 2000, 10:23 pm
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London and Zurich
Programs: AA, BA, Mucci: Sir Roger des Directions Routires, PCR
Posts: 13,609
Hold the front page !!
BA EC have provided some information on BA Miles, phone number and e-mail address. (I e-mailed via the BA website after waiting without success connected to BA's expensive national rate telephone number for six minutes before giving up.)
1. Which economy fares will attract 25% BA Miles credit? 'I am pleased to confirm that all Economy fares will attract BA Miles except Agency Discounted and Industry Discounted tickets'.
2. What is your Sudbury telephone number? (i.e. not 0990 or 0870) 'May I advise that there is not a direct line phone number to our office in Sudbury. The contact telephone number for the Executive Club is 0990 322322.' (You see, Merry, I did try, and this is the response.)
3. What is your e-mail address? 'Our e-mail address is [email protected].'
OK, they took five days to reply and got my name wrong. But at least they provided information on 25% economy mileage credit which had remained elusive until now.
BA EC have provided some information on BA Miles, phone number and e-mail address. (I e-mailed via the BA website after waiting without success connected to BA's expensive national rate telephone number for six minutes before giving up.)
1. Which economy fares will attract 25% BA Miles credit? 'I am pleased to confirm that all Economy fares will attract BA Miles except Agency Discounted and Industry Discounted tickets'.
2. What is your Sudbury telephone number? (i.e. not 0990 or 0870) 'May I advise that there is not a direct line phone number to our office in Sudbury. The contact telephone number for the Executive Club is 0990 322322.' (You see, Merry, I did try, and this is the response.)
3. What is your e-mail address? 'Our e-mail address is [email protected].'
OK, they took five days to reply and got my name wrong. But at least they provided information on 25% economy mileage credit which had remained elusive until now.