BA services to TLV, Israel - restarted 1 Apr 24
Apr 1, 2024, 12:41 pm
#31
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Devon, UK
Programs: VS Silver; Matmid Silver, BA Bronze; Accor Plat.
Posts: 972
Considering that other major airlines are flying widebodies to TLV the move seems suicidal for BA. After a few "tries" very few will keep on flying 5 hours on a 321 when there are far better alternatives available. ELAL are filling 4 flights most days to London, 2 widebodies with excellent flat beds in business, and a good PE cabin, and 2-3 738s (which have a far better business class than BA's SH fleet). Even for connecting traffic, who is going to fly to the USA via London, when LX and AF offer proper business class for what is almost half the journey? What, fly 5 hours on a 321 just to spend the next 6 in F? Makes no sense at all. And the reduction of TPs from next April will kill off the monthly flyers, and I really don't see the 90 odd weekly flyers coming back to that sort of aircraft. TLV is NOT CAI! The demographics are very very different. There are very large numbers of people living with their families in Israel but who still work in Europe or even the USA (a neighbour of ours used to fly almost every week from TLV-JFK) and who travel extremely frequently. Flying once a month on the reduced TPs will just about scrape Gold renewal, putting a very large number of long term GGLs (many with over 70,000 accumulated TPs) out of reach for keeping their status. They will not be returning to BA. The competition on the route is far too strong for that. In the meantime, ELAL are sweeping the floor with full business class cabins (and rumoured to have ordered an additional 789 because of BA basically abandoning the route). I honestly feel that they have based this move on a very superficial reafding of the situation (tourists being put off flying by talk of war). If they were worried by that, I would have thought it would have been wiser for them to have waited longer and not returned to TLV now, rather than getting a bad name which will take a long time to fix.
Where you are undeniably accurate is on the TLV-LHR business flyers, a number of friends/colleagues flew say 5 times a year. on this route, from meeting with them last month an alerting them to the change, there is no way they will fly on a SH aircraft to London. The will probably do vS outbound and LY inbound, they don't care about tier points or Avios, they just want to get to their destination so they can work.
Apr 1, 2024, 4:07 pm
#32
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,255
The aircraft is refuelled in TLV for the TLV-LHR leg so the crew would do LCA-LCA, one sector and then LCA- TLV, 2 sectors - not a problem. Likewise LCA-TLV-LHR not a problem, just two sectors. LHR-LCA-LCA-LHR. 3 sectors, almost certainly not going to make it within FTL limits. Any diversion on the LCA-TLV leg will be back to LCA if at all possible. Even if the aircraft pushed back at LCA and was taxing out for departure and the word came that it wouldn’t be possible to fly into TLV, so back to stand, the second the parking brake is set and the engines shut down marks the end of a sector. Take off and landing are not required for it to count.
Apr 1, 2024, 4:12 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Mucci, BA, AF
Posts: 10,139
The aircraft is refuelled in TLV for the TLV-LHR leg so the crew would do LCA-LCA, one sector and then LCA- TLV, 2 sectors - not a problem. Likewise LCA-TLV-LHR not a problem, just two sectors. LHR-LCA-LCA-LHR. 3 sectors, almost certainly not going to make it within FTL limits. Any diversion on the LCA-TLV leg will be back to LCA if at all possible. Even if the aircraft pushed back at LCA and was taxing out for departure and the word came that it wouldn’t be possible to fly into TLV, so back to stand, the second the parking brake is set and the engines shut down marks the end of a sector. Take off and landing are not required for it to count.
Apr 1, 2024, 4:18 pm
#35
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 64,150
Today's BA402 was fairly busy. around 32 in Club, 120 or so in Traveller.
Apr 1, 2024, 10:38 pm
#39
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Programs: BA, LY, QF, UA, HH
Posts: 182
I’ve had flights between New York and London that were quicker than the new “LHR-LCA-TLV express”
No amount of marketing spin will convince me that this is a short-haul, “Europe,” flight and I’ve already voted with my wallet.
No amount of marketing spin will convince me that this is a short-haul, “Europe,” flight and I’ve already voted with my wallet.
Last edited by expataus; Apr 1, 2024 at 11:41 pm
Apr 2, 2024, 1:49 am
#40
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,255
And to think those route used to by served by a 737 ex LGW as LGW-TLV-LGW once upon a time.
Apr 2, 2024, 2:00 am
#41
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,724
TLV is only 193 miles further from LHR than LCA and it runs as a shorthaul route ok
Apr 2, 2024, 3:03 am
#42
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Devon, UK
Programs: VS Silver; Matmid Silver, BA Bronze; Accor Plat.
Posts: 972
But TLV is more of a business and tech hub than LCA, hence the disquiet.
Apr 2, 2024, 3:40 am
#43
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,249
That is to me the best argument put forward yet, I thought that we had long flogged to death the big change on the route some weeks ago - but clearly not. Having looked at the loads in CE on the route in the next few days,; it would seem that significant numbers are still booking this. Whether after doing such a flight in as A320 they continue I cannot tell. However, if you are correct and this is such a route - and I have absolutely no argument with you as I really do not know - then I think that the disquiet stems from the fact that there are those who will have to fly the thing as their employers, clients or customers are paying the bill.
Apr 2, 2024, 4:09 am
#44
Join Date: Feb 2005
Programs: EL AL Matmid, BA Executive Club GfL, GGL/CCR, Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,088
https://twitter.com/DigitalNapalm13/..._esYZz2SQ&s=19
Doesn't look to have been an entirely successful first flight!
Doesn't look to have been an entirely successful first flight!
Apr 2, 2024, 4:13 am
#45
Join Date: Feb 2005
Programs: EL AL Matmid, BA Executive Club GfL, GGL/CCR, Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,088
Could LCA support 2 packed full 3 or 4 class widebodies a day, 7 days a week? Well that is what BA were flying to TLV until October. And they often had an additional third flight over the summer. That's the difference. A very large number of the people who fly BA from TLV over the next few weeks, in whatever class, will never go back to BA. This is going to prove to have been a collosal blunder.