Unbelievable Facebook Post BA2262
Mar 20, 2023, 7:56 pm
#31
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: BOS-TLV
Programs: Lots of them, no status
Posts: 1,318
This must have been a hugely distressing experience. The crack of ribs is audible and CPR within a confined space is extremely difficult. Defibrillation is actually rather unpleasant to watch. Administering CPR in such an environment cannot be easy, and double difficult to manage the safety of the other passengers as well. I suspect the person posting the original facebook post needs sone support.
The last successful CPR I did was for 50 min, resulted in 9 broken ribs and their sternum needed rewiring. But they survived to discharge from hospital. Brain intact. The last unsuccessful one I did I was almost in tears. I have been involved in hundreds of resus calls / trauma calls / true emeregenciesI would guess over the years, But never on a plane doing CPR and I have done a lot of aeromedical work.
Maybe cut her a bit of slack. Sounds awful for those travelling with the deceased.
The last successful CPR I did was for 50 min, resulted in 9 broken ribs and their sternum needed rewiring. But they survived to discharge from hospital. Brain intact. The last unsuccessful one I did I was almost in tears. I have been involved in hundreds of resus calls / trauma calls / true emeregenciesI would guess over the years, But never on a plane doing CPR and I have done a lot of aeromedical work.
Maybe cut her a bit of slack. Sounds awful for those travelling with the deceased.
Mar 20, 2023, 10:23 pm
#33
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I 35 south bound, finally stopped
Programs: LT Plt, 4mm, *A GLD, burned out medical provider, executing our estate plan
Posts: 1,665
"The flight experience was not what they paid for, and no apologies for the attempted resuscitation from BA."
I have attempted resuscitations in many unlikely locations, the last on the beach in St. Johns USVI for 60 minutes. I called it. Once doing a tracheostomy that was successful. It is never pretty. On a plane it is likely to be a Pulmonary Embolism, especially in Y. It is super hard to do continued chest compressions in a narrow aisle on a plane. And you will have to change personnel because you get tired after a while. Young EMS people are a godsend. Sudden death is not ever very likely from lack of food or hypoglycemia. I have responded to many requests for a physician on a flight. Have never been compensated. Did not think I needed to be. Why would BA need to apologize for somebody dying on their plane? Boggles the mind. Since I have been faced with this issue here is a link for good samaritan medical professionals.
https://rapidresponserevival.com/202...ns-on-flights/
Naturally, during the course of this experience, it meant or flight services were halted and aside from the initial meal, drinks and flight mills were discontinued, so we did not receive a thorough flight experience that we had paid for. I am extremely infuriated by British Airways handling of this situation, following the flight because I would have expected some sort of communication from yourselves to those of us that have been on the flight, particularly close enough to have been impacted and witnessed the whole experience to check on our well-being, apologise for the experience and offer some sort of compensation
I have attempted resuscitations in many unlikely locations, the last on the beach in St. Johns USVI for 60 minutes. I called it. Once doing a tracheostomy that was successful. It is never pretty. On a plane it is likely to be a Pulmonary Embolism, especially in Y. It is super hard to do continued chest compressions in a narrow aisle on a plane. And you will have to change personnel because you get tired after a while. Young EMS people are a godsend. Sudden death is not ever very likely from lack of food or hypoglycemia. I have responded to many requests for a physician on a flight. Have never been compensated. Did not think I needed to be. Why would BA need to apologize for somebody dying on their plane? Boggles the mind. Since I have been faced with this issue here is a link for good samaritan medical professionals.
https://rapidresponserevival.com/202...ns-on-flights/
Naturally, during the course of this experience, it meant or flight services were halted and aside from the initial meal, drinks and flight mills were discontinued, so we did not receive a thorough flight experience that we had paid for. I am extremely infuriated by British Airways handling of this situation, following the flight because I would have expected some sort of communication from yourselves to those of us that have been on the flight, particularly close enough to have been impacted and witnessed the whole experience to check on our well-being, apologise for the experience and offer some sort of compensation
Mar 21, 2023, 2:05 am
#34
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 858
A good friend was driving past a golf course and got waved down. Two elderly golfers and one in a bad way. My pal was on the phone to the emergency services who instructed him in CPR. Ambulance, police car and air ambulance all arrived. Experts moved instantly in to take over and act professionally. Ambulance and police car, taking the victim's golf partner, as the helicopter took off.
My pal was then left standing on the golf course, alone and exhausted, wondering just what had happened!
Sadly, the poor individual died shortly after arrival at the hospital. But he did get a thank you note from the family. Perhaps that was all that was needed from BA at the time was that. A simple note.
My pal was then left standing on the golf course, alone and exhausted, wondering just what had happened!
Sadly, the poor individual died shortly after arrival at the hospital. But he did get a thank you note from the family. Perhaps that was all that was needed from BA at the time was that. A simple note.
Mar 21, 2023, 2:49 am
#36
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,883
Before someone goes into cardiac arrest there is often a 15 minute period when the body slides up into crisis mode. For men in particular there may be a sense of doom, deep greyness, sweating, real discomfort, (these are the impacts of not having enough oxygen for the body's requirement) - maybe moderate pain, chest pressure, heart going into overdrive. These happen before the classic symptoms of cardiac arrest. So if you are male and this happens to you, and you're flying or in airport, what do you do? You haul yourself over to the toilets since you think you are going to be sick. And you don't tell anyone. Women tend to raise the alarm. People sometimes think it's food poisoning or excess alcohol, when it's more like a lifetime of build up. As a result there is a high chance that someone goes into cardiac arrest on the way to the toilets, in the toilet area or very nearby. So if you find someone on the floor of a toilet you may need to react quickly.
The best thing people can do is go on a CPR and defib course, and then commit to refresher courses regularly. In the NHS it's a Statutory course, and almost all NHS workers from cleaners to senior consultants are required to do this course every 12 months (and six months in some cases). Ideally get your employer, voluntary group, church to run regular courses - the guidelines change every few years and did change in response to COVID for example. For a group of 20 people the cost will be around £400 or so, and organisations like the Red Cross, St John's and your regional NHS ambulance service will offer these courses.
Doing CPR for 30 minutes plus in an open area is beyond tiring, I can't imagine how to do in the aisle of an aircraft without it being even more tiring. So even if you have not been on a course and there is a CPR event near you, but you have the mental / physical strength to help, then volunteer to watch the lead and offer to swap every few minutes so that the lead can recover strength to take over again. But it's better to go on a course.
If you aren't up for this (and there should be no judgement about that - quite simply not everyone can do CPR) the least you can do is run out for a defib machine and bring that to the patient. These days they are stored in key places, and it's just a medium sized box, they are easy to move. I'll do a separate thread on defib machines in LHR T5 (I need to check T5C though. I've got photos of the other locations).
Indianapolis Airport has CPR dummy devices by gates A8 and B15 so you give it a go while waiting for your flight. And it's right by the men's toilet!
Last edited by corporate-wage-slave; Mar 21, 2023 at 2:55 am
Mar 21, 2023, 3:47 am
#38
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK
Programs: BA GGL, BA Amex Prem, Amex Plat, Hilton Diamond, Sir Crazy8534 de l'ordres des aides de Pucci
Posts: 4,478
There's a particular point to be made to male frequent flyers here.
Before someone goes into cardiac arrest there is often a 15 minute period when the body slides up into crisis mode. For men in particular there may be a sense of doom, deep greyness, sweating, real discomfort, (these are the impacts of not having enough oxygen for the body's requirement) - maybe moderate pain, chest pressure, heart going into overdrive. These happen before the classic symptoms of cardiac arrest. So if you are male and this happens to you, and you're flying or in airport, what do you do? You haul yourself over to the toilets since you think you are going to be sick. And you don't tell anyone. Women tend to raise the alarm. People sometimes think it's food poisoning or excess alcohol, when it's more like a lifetime of build up. As a result there is a high chance that someone goes into cardiac arrest on the way to the toilets, in the toilet area or very nearby. So if you find someone on the floor of a toilet you may need to react quickly.
Before someone goes into cardiac arrest there is often a 15 minute period when the body slides up into crisis mode. For men in particular there may be a sense of doom, deep greyness, sweating, real discomfort, (these are the impacts of not having enough oxygen for the body's requirement) - maybe moderate pain, chest pressure, heart going into overdrive. These happen before the classic symptoms of cardiac arrest. So if you are male and this happens to you, and you're flying or in airport, what do you do? You haul yourself over to the toilets since you think you are going to be sick. And you don't tell anyone. Women tend to raise the alarm. People sometimes think it's food poisoning or excess alcohol, when it's more like a lifetime of build up. As a result there is a high chance that someone goes into cardiac arrest on the way to the toilets, in the toilet area or very nearby. So if you find someone on the floor of a toilet you may need to react quickly.
The classic is the person who starts choking in a restaurant and then heads to the restroom so as not to cause a fuss.
"Dying of embarrassment" they call it in the business, I understand.
I had exactly an episode of the feelings you describe above happen to me on the tube, although fortunately I was with a friend (and I didn't have a cardiac arrest!) and there was a happy ending (although perhaps sadly not in the Thai-massage sense of that phrase
).
Mar 21, 2023, 4:13 am
#39
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 364
Having done CPR / Defibrillation once it is traumatic and I did break a rib - he survived to make a full recovery and I had to apologise to him for the broken rib later (he was a member of our Church so not a random stranger). What made it less traumatic was knowing that he survived, it must be far worse if the person doesn’t make it. Whilst BA do have a duty to their crew and could have handed out a letter/sent a subsequent email to passengers this was not their fault and the attitude of the passenger is astounding.
Mar 21, 2023, 4:30 am
#40
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,241
There's a particular point to be made to male frequent flyers here.
Before someone goes into cardiac arrest there is often a 15 minute period when the body slides up into crisis mode. For men in particular there may be a sense of doom, deep greyness, sweating, real discomfort, (these are the impacts of not having enough oxygen for the body's requirement) - maybe moderate pain, chest pressure, heart going into overdrive. These happen before the classic symptoms of cardiac arrest. So if you are male and this happens to you, and you're flying or in airport, what do you do? You haul yourself over to the toilets since you think you are going to be sick. And you don't tell anyone. Women tend to raise the alarm. People sometimes think it's food poisoning or excess alcohol, when it's more like a lifetime of build up. As a result there is a high chance that someone goes into cardiac arrest on the way to the toilets, in the toilet area or very nearby. So if you find someone on the floor of a toilet you may need to react quickly.
The best thing people can do is go on a CPR and defib course, and then commit to refresher courses regularly. In the NHS it's a Statutory course, and almost all NHS workers from cleaners to senior consultants are required to do this course every 12 months (and six months in some cases). Ideally get your employer, voluntary group, church to run regular courses - the guidelines change every few years and did change in response to COVID for example. For a group of 20 people the cost will be around £400 or so, and organisations like the Red Cross, St John's and your regional NHS ambulance service will offer these courses.
Doing CPR for 30 minutes plus in an open area is beyond tiring, I can't imagine how to do in the aisle of an aircraft without it being even more tiring. So even if you have not been on a course and there is a CPR event near you, but you have the mental / physical strength to help, then volunteer to watch the lead and offer to swap every few minutes so that the lead can recover strength to take over again. But it's better to go on a course.
If you aren't up for this (and there should be no judgement about that - quite simply not everyone can do CPR) the least you can do is run out for a defib machine and bring that to the patient. These days they are stored in key places, and it's just a medium sized box, they are easy to move. I'll do a separate thread on defib machines in LHR T5 (I need to check T5C though. I've got photos of the other locations).
Indianapolis Airport has CPR dummy devices by gates A8 and B15 so you give it a go while waiting for your flight. And it's right by the men's toilet!
Before someone goes into cardiac arrest there is often a 15 minute period when the body slides up into crisis mode. For men in particular there may be a sense of doom, deep greyness, sweating, real discomfort, (these are the impacts of not having enough oxygen for the body's requirement) - maybe moderate pain, chest pressure, heart going into overdrive. These happen before the classic symptoms of cardiac arrest. So if you are male and this happens to you, and you're flying or in airport, what do you do? You haul yourself over to the toilets since you think you are going to be sick. And you don't tell anyone. Women tend to raise the alarm. People sometimes think it's food poisoning or excess alcohol, when it's more like a lifetime of build up. As a result there is a high chance that someone goes into cardiac arrest on the way to the toilets, in the toilet area or very nearby. So if you find someone on the floor of a toilet you may need to react quickly.
The best thing people can do is go on a CPR and defib course, and then commit to refresher courses regularly. In the NHS it's a Statutory course, and almost all NHS workers from cleaners to senior consultants are required to do this course every 12 months (and six months in some cases). Ideally get your employer, voluntary group, church to run regular courses - the guidelines change every few years and did change in response to COVID for example. For a group of 20 people the cost will be around £400 or so, and organisations like the Red Cross, St John's and your regional NHS ambulance service will offer these courses.
Doing CPR for 30 minutes plus in an open area is beyond tiring, I can't imagine how to do in the aisle of an aircraft without it being even more tiring. So even if you have not been on a course and there is a CPR event near you, but you have the mental / physical strength to help, then volunteer to watch the lead and offer to swap every few minutes so that the lead can recover strength to take over again. But it's better to go on a course.
If you aren't up for this (and there should be no judgement about that - quite simply not everyone can do CPR) the least you can do is run out for a defib machine and bring that to the patient. These days they are stored in key places, and it's just a medium sized box, they are easy to move. I'll do a separate thread on defib machines in LHR T5 (I need to check T5C though. I've got photos of the other locations).
Indianapolis Airport has CPR dummy devices by gates A8 and B15 so you give it a go while waiting for your flight. And it's right by the men's toilet!
Mar 21, 2023, 4:33 am
#41
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LON
Programs: Mucci, BAEC, Eurostar
Posts: 3,297
Having done CPR / Defibrillation once it is traumatic and I did break a rib - he survived to make a full recovery and I had to apologise to him for the broken rib later (he was a member of our Church so not a random stranger). What made it less traumatic was knowing that he survived, it must be far worse if the person doesn’t make it. Whilst BA do have a duty to their crew and could have handed out a letter/sent a subsequent email to passengers this was not their fault and the attitude of the passenger is astounding.
Luckily he made it and is getting married later this year, I think the nightmares would have been much worse otherwise.
Mar 21, 2023, 4:39 am
#42
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 300
So we all agree it’s upsetting. Perhaps look past the content of the complaint and look at the underlying reason. She may not be expressing herself well, or indeed even expressing the issues that have affected her.
That is why I say cut some slack.
That is why I say cut some slack.
Mar 21, 2023, 5:06 am
#43
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Orleans (MSY)
Programs: AA EXP, IHG PLT, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Amtrak, WN
Posts: 2,617
I'm sure this Karen's letter was borderline traumatizing for customer service staff to read. Maybe she should have to compensate them. What a gross human being.
Mar 21, 2023, 6:16 am
#44
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK (currently)
Programs: BA Gold (and many other greater and lesser distinctions)
Posts: 7,212
I was visiting a relative in intensive care and the person in the next bed suffered a cardiac arrest. To describe the 'crash' process as traumatic is an understatement, and that's with the curtains drawn and not seeing the patient. It was 15 odd years ago, but I still remember it as if it was yesterday.
Perhaps people should not be so quick to judge.
Perhaps people should not be so quick to judge.
Mar 21, 2023, 6:30 am
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London
Posts: 18,410
I do love how this thread has showcased the other side of how people respond to these emergencies. We all need each other, whether we want to or not. Kindnesses given to others are kindnesses to me and those I love.