On Board Dog & Allergy
Mar 16, 2023, 3:40 pm
#46
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: FB, Starwood
Posts: 66
Of course, actual service animals are necessary and accommodations need and can be made. BUT... if your mental state is so fragile, that you can't manage a flight without the emotional support of an animal, you should not be allowed to fly, especially over the ocean. If anything happens to your ESA at the destination, you have no way of getting back, possibly overstaying your visa, and becoming a burden on the country you are visiting, until you can procure a new animal, and develop a relationship whit it, that will make it possible to render similar emotional support.
Mar 16, 2023, 4:23 pm
#47
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston
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Posts: 1,301
I recently had this experience on board and think there is probably no right answer as to what should happen, but thought it might make for an interesting discussion.
Flying to DFW in Business. Got on board and settled into my seat, a short while later a fellow passenger takes the seat in front of me, complete with a small dog. The dog doesn't have a 'working dog' style jacket on so I can only assume it's an emotional support dog or similar and of course has been given permission to board.
Now I have a pretty bad allergy to dogs. Even hypoallergenic ones. However I think there's probably enough space between us for it not to be an issue. However ten mins later my symptoms start appearing.
I go speak to the crew, I explain I have an allergy, that my medication which would help it is in my checked luggage (I wasn't assuming that there'd be a dog on board) and asking what they could do.
I was told the flight was full in business and there was nothing they could do. They refused to ask anyone else to reseat and said if it was going to be a problem for me they could move me to economy. Those were my options. So basically they were offering no help at all.
What happened at this point is a fellow passenger overheard the conversation and offered to switch seats, they were sitting further away and actually happened to be travelling with the passenger with the dog. So we did a switch and everything was fine bar a few sniffles and sneezes.
I suppose the point for discussion is what is the airline meant to do in this instance. The fact that they refused to ask other passengers seemed weird to me. If someone hadn't overheard us I would have taken it upon myself to ask other passengers if anyone minded switching. Equally the downgrade didn't seem like a fun option when I'd paid full fare business.
Is there a duty of care to one passenger over another? Assuming this is an emotional support animal then of course they have a duty of care to that passenger and their dog, however is their no duty of care to fellow passengers who are put out by this, be it allergies, fear of dogs or any other reason? Does one passenger trump another's needs? I know if I'd had to stay in that seat the flight would have been hellish with constant streaming of eyes, sneezing and a sore throat.
So, what say you?
Flying to DFW in Business. Got on board and settled into my seat, a short while later a fellow passenger takes the seat in front of me, complete with a small dog. The dog doesn't have a 'working dog' style jacket on so I can only assume it's an emotional support dog or similar and of course has been given permission to board.
Now I have a pretty bad allergy to dogs. Even hypoallergenic ones. However I think there's probably enough space between us for it not to be an issue. However ten mins later my symptoms start appearing.
I go speak to the crew, I explain I have an allergy, that my medication which would help it is in my checked luggage (I wasn't assuming that there'd be a dog on board) and asking what they could do.
I was told the flight was full in business and there was nothing they could do. They refused to ask anyone else to reseat and said if it was going to be a problem for me they could move me to economy. Those were my options. So basically they were offering no help at all.
What happened at this point is a fellow passenger overheard the conversation and offered to switch seats, they were sitting further away and actually happened to be travelling with the passenger with the dog. So we did a switch and everything was fine bar a few sniffles and sneezes.
I suppose the point for discussion is what is the airline meant to do in this instance. The fact that they refused to ask other passengers seemed weird to me. If someone hadn't overheard us I would have taken it upon myself to ask other passengers if anyone minded switching. Equally the downgrade didn't seem like a fun option when I'd paid full fare business.
Is there a duty of care to one passenger over another? Assuming this is an emotional support animal then of course they have a duty of care to that passenger and their dog, however is their no duty of care to fellow passengers who are put out by this, be it allergies, fear of dogs or any other reason? Does one passenger trump another's needs? I know if I'd had to stay in that seat the flight would have been hellish with constant streaming of eyes, sneezing and a sore throat.
So, what say you?
Mar 16, 2023, 4:46 pm
#48
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,094
I think putting some passengers in the cargo hold would be better for all than putting Dogs, who are wonderful, there. (This is not directed at the original poster; it’s just a general observation.)
Mar 16, 2023, 4:50 pm
#49
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
Of course, actual service animals are necessary and accommodations need and can be made. BUT... if your mental state is so fragile, that you can't manage a flight without the emotional support of an animal, you should not be allowed to fly, especially over the ocean. If anything happens to your ESA at the destination, you have no way of getting back, possibly overstaying your visa, and becoming a burden on the country you are visiting, until you can procure a new animal, and develop a relationship whit it, that will make it possible to render similar emotional support.
It’s like wheelchairs for boarding/deboarding. Obviously less than 10% of those who use that service really need that service. Always funny to watch 85 year old Japanese people walking to their seats and at the same time 60 year old - not disabled - Indian people getting pushed in a wheelchair, often accompanied by up to a dozen of their relatives. For some reasons some of them who deboarded in wheelchairs can be watched walking around in the lounge later. There is no medical reason, why sometimes there are dozens of wheelchairs at a gate at AUH or DBX, if there is a plan arriving from India, but almost none, if the plane is arriving from Japan. The easiest way to heal the world is to charge a fee for the wheelchair service at airports.
Same for emotional support animals and US citizens. Most of them don’t really need an ESA, they are just abusing the system. And of course, cats and dogs are cute animals. While there are about 50% more people living in the EU than in the US, there are 20 times more ESA in the US than in the EU. Americans are not 30 times more likely to suffer psychological problems than Europeans.
Mar 16, 2023, 4:59 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Mar 16, 2023, 5:24 pm
#51
Join Date: Apr 2013
Programs: Aadvantage Platinum, Marriott Gold
Posts: 73
I travel with my service dog (very big difference between ESA [which are no longer allowed by most US airlines other than as a pet] and service dogs.
Service dogs are trained to assist a person with a disability - mine is a seizure alert dog for example, and well trained as such. She has also been trained to behave well and can easily be told apart from the 'pet in the amazon working dog vest'.
Speaking of the vests - they literally mean nothing. If you see a dog wearing one, just means the owner bought one on amazon. If you see a dog on board without one, also means nothing - they aren't required to wear them, though it is often helpful since the public assumes a non-vested dog is not a service dog.
Whenever I travel I ask the ground agent to page the people around me and ask if they have allergies. I don't want to be a burden to anyone, and I'd rather deal with it on the ground than in the air.
Most of the time there isn't an issue, and in the few instances where people weren't comfortable flying near a dog, I changed my seat.
It is pretty easy to tell apart a real service animal from an imposter, but there is nothing that you can do about it, at least not in the US. There isn't any regulation around what qualifies an animal as service animal, so any Joe Blow can say their dog is a trained service animal, and that is that. Most airline personnel won't challenge it either, cause nobody wants to deal with ADA issues.
Hopefully both service dog handlers and pet owners can at least be considerate of each other, and peacefully co-exist with the other passengers.
Service dogs are trained to assist a person with a disability - mine is a seizure alert dog for example, and well trained as such. She has also been trained to behave well and can easily be told apart from the 'pet in the amazon working dog vest'.
Speaking of the vests - they literally mean nothing. If you see a dog wearing one, just means the owner bought one on amazon. If you see a dog on board without one, also means nothing - they aren't required to wear them, though it is often helpful since the public assumes a non-vested dog is not a service dog.
Whenever I travel I ask the ground agent to page the people around me and ask if they have allergies. I don't want to be a burden to anyone, and I'd rather deal with it on the ground than in the air.
Most of the time there isn't an issue, and in the few instances where people weren't comfortable flying near a dog, I changed my seat.
It is pretty easy to tell apart a real service animal from an imposter, but there is nothing that you can do about it, at least not in the US. There isn't any regulation around what qualifies an animal as service animal, so any Joe Blow can say their dog is a trained service animal, and that is that. Most airline personnel won't challenge it either, cause nobody wants to deal with ADA issues.
Hopefully both service dog handlers and pet owners can at least be considerate of each other, and peacefully co-exist with the other passengers.
Mar 16, 2023, 5:26 pm
#52
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BSL
Programs: AA (EXP); among others :)
Posts: 2,522
More than two thirds of "true" ESAs were prescribed to armed forces veterans in the US suffering from PTSD. This is where the term originated.There is no denying that the US with their very large military and using said military to fight several wars where Europeans haven't been involved in at all or been involved at the sidelines only have a much greater 'customer base' for ESAs.
This is why these became so prevalent in the US and regulations were first built around this particular group of patients/passengers. And it also explains why they were originally grouped with trained service animals despite not meeting formal training qualifications. And it explains why it took lawmakers such a long time to react to the out-of-hand situation of people using (fake) ESA status to fly with untrained pets for free - nobody wanted to make enemies with the veteran community.
Today, due to the regulations having been tightened (it's not just air transportation, housing is a much bigger issue overall) veteran ESAs enjoy formal training and certification by universally accepted sanctioning bodies - something the UK has done all the time. Dogs trained this way fall under the 'trained service dog' umbrella. Downside: The cost for this goes up considerably, somebody's got to pay for all the training. In Switzerland, we have universal healthcare largely paying for this, in the US, well, many/most aren't as lucky.
Further reading: https://k9sforwarriors.org/ and https://www.servicedogpass.org/
(I can't believe I'm actually arguing in defense of this....)
Last edited by bhomburg; Mar 16, 2023 at 5:46 pm
Mar 16, 2023, 5:32 pm
#53
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: FB, Starwood
Posts: 66
Not much to worry about that.
It’s like wheelchairs for boarding/deboarding. Obviously less than 10% of those who use that service really need that service. Always funny to watch 85 year old Japanese people walking to their seats and at the same time 60 year old - not disabled - Indian people getting pushed in a wheelchair, often accompanied by up to a dozen of their relatives. For some reasons some of them who deboarded in wheelchairs can be watched walking around in the lounge later. There is no medical reason, why sometimes there are dozens of wheelchairs at a gate at AUH or DBX, if there is a plan arriving from India, but almost none, if the plane is arriving from Japan. The easiest way to heal the world is to charge a fee for the wheelchair service at airports.
Same for emotional support animals and US citizens. Most of them don’t really need an ESA, they are just abusing the system. And of course, cats and dogs are cute animals. While there are about 50% more people living in the EU than in the US, there are 20 times more ESA in the US than in the EU. Americans are not 30 times more likely to suffer psychological problems than Europeans.
It’s like wheelchairs for boarding/deboarding. Obviously less than 10% of those who use that service really need that service. Always funny to watch 85 year old Japanese people walking to their seats and at the same time 60 year old - not disabled - Indian people getting pushed in a wheelchair, often accompanied by up to a dozen of their relatives. For some reasons some of them who deboarded in wheelchairs can be watched walking around in the lounge later. There is no medical reason, why sometimes there are dozens of wheelchairs at a gate at AUH or DBX, if there is a plan arriving from India, but almost none, if the plane is arriving from Japan. The easiest way to heal the world is to charge a fee for the wheelchair service at airports.
Same for emotional support animals and US citizens. Most of them don’t really need an ESA, they are just abusing the system. And of course, cats and dogs are cute animals. While there are about 50% more people living in the EU than in the US, there are 20 times more ESA in the US than in the EU. Americans are not 30 times more likely to suffer psychological problems than Europeans.
LAX to GDL, counted 21 wheelchairs into 737.
Mar 16, 2023, 6:04 pm
#55
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
It is pretty easy to tell apart a real service animal from an imposter, but there is nothing that you can do about it, at least not in the US. There isn't any regulation around what qualifies an animal as service animal, so any Joe Blow can say their dog is a trained service animal, and that is that. Most airline personnel won't challenge it either, cause nobody wants to deal with ADA issues.
Mar 16, 2023, 6:23 pm
#56
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA GGL. HH Diamond. CC, SPG, MR Gold.
Posts: 59
My wife is BA Gold, and whilst her Guide Dog ("registered assistance animal") doesn't count as a guest for her accessing the lounge, doggo also doesn't earn tier points or avios. I'd love to have seen a day where her dog can guest me into a lounge!!
Mar 16, 2023, 9:11 pm
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
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In particular (in the US, under various Health Codes) ESAs aren't permitted where food is served.
Mar 16, 2023, 10:59 pm
#59
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: FB, Starwood
Posts: 66
Emotional support animals are real, and have their purpose. But they aren't trained service animals, and (their owners) don't have the same rights as (the owners of) service animals.
In particular (in the US, under various Health Codes) ESAs aren't permitted where food is served.
In particular (in the US, under various Health Codes) ESAs aren't permitted where food is served.