LHR Flounge Customer Service Chaos
Aug 11, 2022, 5:02 am
#61
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 368
The risk of doing so is that an officious (and offensive) BA staff member would then make a random and non-evidence based decision that the lady is unfit to fly, off-load her and thus remove her from Flounge, abandoning her in the main terminal.
Aug 11, 2022, 5:11 am
#62
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I sent one of my contacts off to Flounge just after I first read the thread, and there was no-one who obviously matched this description at 15:15 hrs and the customer service desk agent didn't know anything about it either. Agents get rotated every few hours.
Aug 11, 2022, 5:16 am
#63
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LON
Programs: Mucci, BAEC, Eurostar
Posts: 3,293
I agree with most of your points above, and with KARFA, whom I've ever seen this angry on our lovely BAEC board.
But this last one here strikes a chord.
"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence".
But this last one here strikes a chord.
"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence".
Aug 11, 2022, 5:23 am
#64
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BA GfL & GGL, FB Platinum, MB Titanium, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,403
Oh the irony. BA management should be ashamed, but they won't be.
Aug 11, 2022, 5:27 am
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
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Well managed companies select, train, place and monitor staff performance in roles suited to their training and skills.
If BA chooses to place staff unprepared to deal with ticketing issues in roles where they will be expected to deal with such issues for its commercially important passengers, then it's the crass management of the airline that should attract criticism.
I imagine it was a pretty bruising day for agents we're talking about. They'll be aware their performance was not up to scratch: job satisfaction must be near-zero. It seems a little uncharitable to heap blame on them for the failings of their employer.
It used to be the case that the business-class lounge hosted ticketing-agents in their team: has that opportunity for resolving ]problems been removed?
Aug 11, 2022, 6:33 am
#66
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 41
CWS, spot on, as usual. Yes, it was BA1414. I arrived at the gate (A1) at 0714. It should have closed at 0710 for 0730 departure, so I was 4 minutes late (after late transatlantic arrival). Club World flight connections had called the gate to ask it to wait a few minutes and the gate had agreed to do so. (I overheard the phone conversation as my LHR/BHD boarding pass beeped at flight connections, and sent me to an agent, who called the gate immediately while I waited in front of her. She then reprinted my boarding pass and sent me to A1, with someone to walk me to the front of security to get me through quickly, given the time constraint). One of the gate agents at A1 (who was packing up at 0714) asserted that they had "waited a long time" for me and then off-loaded me. I queried this, she refused to clarify what a "long time" was and as I was only 4 minutes after the regular gate closure time, it seems that her definition of "a long time" must be 0 - appox. 3 minutes. Meanwhile, the other remaining gate agent contradicted her, asserting that as that flight had a light load, he had taken the decision to close it early and off-load me (notwithstanding the phone call with flight connections). In summary, ono one agent states that they waited "a long time" (i.e. perhaps 3 minutes) and the other agent states that he closed the flight early as it had a light load (light because it's a flight that is no longer available for sale). Is there any way of determining the precise time at which the flight closed?
Aug 11, 2022, 6:56 am
#67
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
Also, PRM assistance is (unfortunately) handled by the airport as per the law, and HAL in its wisdom has contracted Wilson James which, much like its predecessor Omniserve, does a very bad job of it. It doesn't help that assistance staff is paid peanuts and are perennially overbooked. It also doesn't help that quite a few passengers use assistance (especially on arrival) to bypass queues at immigration, leaving those who actually need it high and dry.
TBH when I was working in the terminals I've lost the count of the amount of times I helped passengers waiting for assistance...
Aug 11, 2022, 7:17 am
#68
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
…………………………….
Well managed companies select, train, place and monitor staff performance in roles suited to their training and skills.
If BA chooses to place staff unprepared to deal with ticketing issues in roles where they will be expected to deal with such issues for its commercially important passengers, then it's the crass management of the airline that should attract criticism.
………………………………….
Well managed companies select, train, place and monitor staff performance in roles suited to their training and skills.
If BA chooses to place staff unprepared to deal with ticketing issues in roles where they will be expected to deal with such issues for its commercially important passengers, then it's the crass management of the airline that should attract criticism.
………………………………….
In his much-liked post (#5) upthread, KARFA expresses understandable frustration that a number of “very stupid ignorant BA ground staff” have remained in their jobs when “they should have been booted out a long time ago”.
So, although senior management are never there to witness in person the various frightening service failures as reported by OP southsquare, it is indeed management who are ultimately accountable and who should, as you say, attract the real criticism.
These incidents go deeper than the specific circumstances on the day, and say a lot about the underlying culture of an organisation and its stewardship.
In terms of the BA-specific issues, one is prompted to wonder what exactly CEO Mr Doyle had in mind when he wrote, back in January, that “I am looking at what we need to do to recognise and reward the people we know make a difference to your journey, and ensure they have everything they need to feel empowered to do the right thing by you every single day”
What degree of progress has been made towards that objective during the course of 2022 …….? or is he perhaps still looking ?
Aug 11, 2022, 7:17 am
#69
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate
Programs: *A Gold (A3), HHonor Gold
Posts: 5,699
Not sure how I would react if the situation occurs to me, at least I think I would ask her if she needs me to call some form of assistance.
Aug 11, 2022, 7:23 am
#70
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London
Programs: BA GGLfL, WoH Lifetime Globalist, HH Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 711
Doc Copper
Aug 11, 2022, 7:31 am
#71
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 2,155
I can understand that in "normal times" if there are no seats available for sale then the flight is probably full, or even oversold.
But at the moment one might hope that the reservation system would be able to indicate sold seats v aircraft capacity to allow for rebooking of irrops passengers in just this kind of situation. And if you are already airside from an inbound transfer then you are clearly already within the HAL capacity quota.
Dreadful service.
But at the moment one might hope that the reservation system would be able to indicate sold seats v aircraft capacity to allow for rebooking of irrops passengers in just this kind of situation. And if you are already airside from an inbound transfer then you are clearly already within the HAL capacity quota.
Dreadful service.
Aug 11, 2022, 7:52 am
#72
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 460
I sent one of my contacts off to Flounge just after I first read the thread, and there was no-one who obviously matched this description at 15:15 hrs and the customer service desk agent didn't know anything about it either. Agents get rotated every few hours.
Aug 11, 2022, 8:10 am
#73
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
Am in total agreement.
In his much-liked post (#5) upthread, KARFA expresses understandable frustration that a number of “very stupid ignorant BA ground staff” have remained in their jobs when “they should have been booted out a long time ago”.
So, although senior management are never there to witness in person the various frightening service failures as reported by OP southsquare, it is indeed management who are ultimately accountable and who should, as you say, attract the real criticism.
These incidents go deeper than the specific circumstances on the day, and say a lot about the underlying culture of an organisation and its stewardship.
In terms of the BA-specific issues, one is prompted to wonder what exactly CEO Mr Doyle had in mind when he wrote, back in January, that “I am looking at what we need to do to recognise and reward the people we know make a difference to your journey, and ensure they have everything they need to feel empowered to do the right thing by you every single day”
What degree of progress has been made towards that objective during the course of 2022 …….? or is he perhaps still looking ?
In his much-liked post (#5) upthread, KARFA expresses understandable frustration that a number of “very stupid ignorant BA ground staff” have remained in their jobs when “they should have been booted out a long time ago”.
So, although senior management are never there to witness in person the various frightening service failures as reported by OP southsquare, it is indeed management who are ultimately accountable and who should, as you say, attract the real criticism.
These incidents go deeper than the specific circumstances on the day, and say a lot about the underlying culture of an organisation and its stewardship.
In terms of the BA-specific issues, one is prompted to wonder what exactly CEO Mr Doyle had in mind when he wrote, back in January, that “I am looking at what we need to do to recognise and reward the people we know make a difference to your journey, and ensure they have everything they need to feel empowered to do the right thing by you every single day”
What degree of progress has been made towards that objective during the course of 2022 …….? or is he perhaps still looking ?
A3 - can just do 'basic' stuff: check-in, boarding, arrival at the gate.
A4 - gate lead: like A3, but open/close gate, offload customers, something else
A5 - I'll be totally honest, I cannot remember what they do
A6 - ticketing
The higher you go, the more money you make. Ticketing, especially when it involves different airlines, is a dark art and doing it well & at speed requires skills. Unfortunately, back in '18-'19 IAG decided that BA was too expensive at LHR, based on some benchmarking activity. Alex sent his attack dogs in and, lo and behold, many functions were stripped out of the terminals because it was felt that a contact centre in India could cover them. Based on what I hear, there is either very little ticketing experience at LHR, or none at all.
To bring that capability back it would not only require training and recruitment but, more importantly, a great deal of IR negotiations and pain. The TUs - and anyone with a modicum of sense, frankly - raised the risk of outsourcing this sort of capability, especially after Lufthansa had gone through a similar exercise that went, well, badly... but it fell on deaf ears.
Aug 11, 2022, 8:40 am
#74
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
Thank you 13901 for taking time to comment in detail (with the insight afforded by I-was-there inside knowledge).
You paint a somewhat depressing, albeit factual, picture. As so often, all about the short-term bottom line ‘wins’ - and you can’t help wonder how much further damage Alex might have done to the customer experience had he been given the IAG job (or even remained in situ)
You paint a somewhat depressing, albeit factual, picture. As so often, all about the short-term bottom line ‘wins’ - and you can’t help wonder how much further damage Alex might have done to the customer experience had he been given the IAG job (or even remained in situ)
Aug 11, 2022, 9:06 am
#75
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: BA Exec Club Gold, *G, EK Skywards Silver
Posts: 1,020
The problem is that ticketing was a function done by a specific non-management grade within BA. I'd say A6, but I might be wrong. If I remember correctly, it was something like this for above-the-wing non-management roles:
A3 - can just do 'basic' stuff: check-in, boarding, arrival at the gate.
A4 - gate lead: like A3, but open/close gate, offload customers, something else
A5 - I'll be totally honest, I cannot remember what they do
A6 - ticketing
The higher you go, the more money you make. Ticketing, especially when it involves different airlines, is a dark art and doing it well & at speed requires skills. Unfortunately, back in '18-'19 IAG decided that BA was too expensive at LHR, based on some benchmarking activity. Alex sent his attack dogs in and, lo and behold, many functions were stripped out of the terminals because it was felt that a contact centre in India could cover them. Based on what I hear, there is either very little ticketing experience at LHR, or none at all.
To bring that capability back it would not only require training and recruitment but, more importantly, a great deal of IR negotiations and pain. The TUs - and anyone with a modicum of sense, frankly - raised the risk of outsourcing this sort of capability, especially after Lufthansa had gone through a similar exercise that went, well, badly... but it fell on deaf ears.
A3 - can just do 'basic' stuff: check-in, boarding, arrival at the gate.
A4 - gate lead: like A3, but open/close gate, offload customers, something else
A5 - I'll be totally honest, I cannot remember what they do
A6 - ticketing
The higher you go, the more money you make. Ticketing, especially when it involves different airlines, is a dark art and doing it well & at speed requires skills. Unfortunately, back in '18-'19 IAG decided that BA was too expensive at LHR, based on some benchmarking activity. Alex sent his attack dogs in and, lo and behold, many functions were stripped out of the terminals because it was felt that a contact centre in India could cover them. Based on what I hear, there is either very little ticketing experience at LHR, or none at all.
To bring that capability back it would not only require training and recruitment but, more importantly, a great deal of IR negotiations and pain. The TUs - and anyone with a modicum of sense, frankly - raised the risk of outsourcing this sort of capability, especially after Lufthansa had gone through a similar exercise that went, well, badly... but it fell on deaf ears.