British Airways change in Conditions of Carriage after 30/9/22
Jun 29, 2022, 1:25 pm
#46
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,660
Again super helpful! So the fare has been changing a lot during this time that I was in no man's land and calling in and not getting anywhere. When I was first looking into changing the trip in total and looking to rebook, the costs were as following (mid June), World Traveller $760 round trip with changeable language at time of booking (I tried multi city booking to include GLA-LCY but it was double this price and I could book stand alone for $107 for the one way). For World Traveller Plus, again with no "book and upgrade" and just paying cash, the fare with all taxes/fees was $1,578 (again, booking GLA-LCY independantly as much less expensive; $182 for business). At that time, fi I had a super agent at BA, in theory I could have rebooked my entire itenerary for 35 pound change fee and the overall total would have been less than existing reservation.
Alas, however, after 15-20 hours on the phone with NOT super BA bookign agents, multiple posts on this thread that got me no closer to a resolution, and lots of time past by: the fares have gone up... imagine that! However, still a World Traveller Plus cash for 25/9 to 3/10 with me ADDING the GLA-LCY seperately is $1,799.37 currently plus cost of GLA-LCY to be added.
BTW, on all times calling I was calling during US hours and still every time ended with India. If I decide to be proactive and not wait to have BA change a leg, I would be calling back, go on hold for an hour, most likely get an India agent, ask to be transfered, wait on hold again, and maybe just maybe find someone that knows the crazy rules of BA and the process to get them rectified.
THANK YOU AGAIN corporate-wage-slave, because without you, this thread would have ended without the insights you provided over last few hours that I have been desperately been seeking since June 8th.
Thank you for:
1) Reading my post that had the nhw5c7m5 in the screen capture that gave you some insight into asking me to do a few things and interacting with me quickly via this post.
2) Asking me to go Royal Air Maroc's site to see the purchase conditions
3) When that did not work, asking me to go to FinnAir and check and behold my FARE BASIS! Again amazing that NONE of this detail is on "manage my bookings on BA site"
4) Sharing the ExpertFlyer info on my fare basis language and posting so I am armed for my next call with BA if I choose to do.
AMAZING interaction and details in a few hours that I have been so desperately seeking! THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
I am now armed with the details needed to interact effectively with BA as opposed to the response, "You are not allowed to change your outbound" from all the previous interactions with BA's call center.
PS - My hope is that someone on flyertalk in the future reads this post (specifically just the last 4-5 hours where real progress was made) and gains insight into the "book and upgrade" process with British Airways.
Alas, however, after 15-20 hours on the phone with NOT super BA bookign agents, multiple posts on this thread that got me no closer to a resolution, and lots of time past by: the fares have gone up... imagine that! However, still a World Traveller Plus cash for 25/9 to 3/10 with me ADDING the GLA-LCY seperately is $1,799.37 currently plus cost of GLA-LCY to be added.
BTW, on all times calling I was calling during US hours and still every time ended with India. If I decide to be proactive and not wait to have BA change a leg, I would be calling back, go on hold for an hour, most likely get an India agent, ask to be transfered, wait on hold again, and maybe just maybe find someone that knows the crazy rules of BA and the process to get them rectified.
THANK YOU AGAIN corporate-wage-slave, because without you, this thread would have ended without the insights you provided over last few hours that I have been desperately been seeking since June 8th.
Thank you for:
1) Reading my post that had the nhw5c7m5 in the screen capture that gave you some insight into asking me to do a few things and interacting with me quickly via this post.
2) Asking me to go Royal Air Maroc's site to see the purchase conditions
3) When that did not work, asking me to go to FinnAir and check and behold my FARE BASIS! Again amazing that NONE of this detail is on "manage my bookings on BA site"
4) Sharing the ExpertFlyer info on my fare basis language and posting so I am armed for my next call with BA if I choose to do.
AMAZING interaction and details in a few hours that I have been so desperately seeking! THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
I am now armed with the details needed to interact effectively with BA as opposed to the response, "You are not allowed to change your outbound" from all the previous interactions with BA's call center.
PS - My hope is that someone on flyertalk in the future reads this post (specifically just the last 4-5 hours where real progress was made) and gains insight into the "book and upgrade" process with British Airways.
Personally I suspect your outbound fare is non changeable and the inbound is changeable. Errors happen but for multiple agents to say it couldnt be changed its less plausible its an error.
I have seen fares the last couple of months that are non changesble economy fares.They were all fares departing the US, like your ticket.
Jun 29, 2022, 1:31 pm
#47
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Well to be fair to the other FTers on this thread, we were getting a little lost in all the words. Now I also get antsy when people put no meaningful detail in their posts, that's worse in a way, and you can't be accused of that. But we're all on the same side here, and it's a bit of an art to balance brevity and sufficient information and clarity. If you do call again it's important to focus on WT not WTP since that is the basis of your ticket. I reckon it's about $200 to move to 25 September in WT without doing all the maths.
Jun 29, 2022, 3:13 pm
#48
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,660
Well to be fair to the other FTers on this thread, we were getting a little lost in all the words. Now I also get antsy when people put no meaningful detail in their posts, that's worse in a way, and you can't be accused of that. But we're all on the same side here, and it's a bit of an art to balance brevity and sufficient information and clarity. If you do call again it's important to focus on WT not WTP since that is the basis of your ticket. I reckon it's about $200 to move to 25 September in WT without doing all the maths.
Jun 29, 2022, 3:19 pm
#49
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Yes, though I think we have now established it's NLN0C1B5. The UuA may be the blocking component here since I'm sure India isn't going to be helpful on that one.
Jun 29, 2022, 4:42 pm
#50
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,660
not convinced the fare basis for outbound is correct.
But asking straight away for the agent to check fare rules will prompt the agent to do this first and will give the op the clear cut answer he is seeking. Otherwise the agent not expecting a non changeable economy fare will spend time trying to quote the change or send it to fares.
I say this because are now some Non changeable fares ive seen that are EX USA Basic Economy fares. There havent been non changeable fares in some time and honestly i was surprised when i saw them.
Last edited by Anonba; Jun 29, 2022 at 4:52 pm
Jun 29, 2022, 5:56 pm
#51
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Thats my point the Uua doesnt block anything in the reservation system we can always see the fare basis. I dont know why but im
not convinced the fare basis for outbound is correct.
But asking straight away for the agent to check fare rules will prompt the agent to do this first and will give the op the clear cut answer he is seeking. Otherwise the agent not expecting a non changeable economy fare will spend time trying to quote the change or send it to fares.
I say this because are now some Non changeable fares ive seen that are EX USA Basic Economy fares. There havent been non changeable fares in some time and honestly i was surprised when i saw them.
not convinced the fare basis for outbound is correct.
But asking straight away for the agent to check fare rules will prompt the agent to do this first and will give the op the clear cut answer he is seeking. Otherwise the agent not expecting a non changeable economy fare will spend time trying to quote the change or send it to fares.
I say this because are now some Non changeable fares ive seen that are EX USA Basic Economy fares. There havent been non changeable fares in some time and honestly i was surprised when i saw them.
On previous calls, with India, I have been told my outbound is unable to be changed.
Should I just ask the agent for the fare basis detail right when get on call (they said on last call with India escallation that the cannot see as ticketing was changing me back to original itenerary)? They will either share the posted fare basis from FinnAir or give me something else?
I guess I am not clear on specifically what I am to do when/if I call. I DO want to get an SUPER agent, that much is clear...
Also what exactly does this mean "some Non changeable fares ive seen that are EX USA Basic Economy fares"?
Thanks.
Jun 29, 2022, 6:41 pm
#52
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Jun 29, 2022, 6:43 pm
#53
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For DEN-GLA I have found the change rules via Expertflyer and I've put them below. In essence you have to reprice to the higher fare including changes to taxes, using today's fares. It does say travel on that fare basis needs to be completed by 30 September, this was an "emergency" ticketing rule brought in when no-one much was travelling. There is a diffferent fare basis for the return which presumably isn't an issue. There doesn't appear to be a penalty on the fare basis, despite the wording allowing for it (unless it's buried somewhere I can't spot). The ticket is non refundable. So what you need to do is call on the USA line during USA business hours, before about 16:30 hrs Eastern, ideally, and hopefully you will get Newcastle. Alternatively call the Prague or Barcelona numbers during European office hours to get Bremen. However because you used Avios on this I think Bremen may decline to touch this - I'm not entirely sure on this one, it certainly applies if making a UuA. So the conversation you want is "I want to move just the outbound to this new date, by all means remove the UuA to do this, the return to Denver is OK." They should then be able to reprice in Economy/ World Traveller, and we will worry about UuA on another occasion. Alternatively wait until BA cancels your LHR-GLA flight.
ba.com/contact-us
ba.com/contact-us
Code:
CHANGES ANY TIME CHANGES PERMITTED FOR REISSUE/REVALIDATION. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF TICKETS CHANGED IN THE US ANY PENALTY FEE MUST BE COLLECTED VIA AN EMD. REFER TO SPEEDBIRDCLUB.COM OR BATRAVELTRADE.COM AND YOUR GDS FOR INSTRUCTIONS. ---------------------------------------------- CHARGE APPLIES PER TRANSACTION - PER PERSON FOR ALL PASSENGER TYPES. INFANTS WITHOUT A SEAT - NO CHARGE. -------------------------------------------------- A CHANGE IS A DATE/FLIGHT/ROUTING/BOOKING CODE CHANGE. NEW RESERVATION AND REISSUE/REVALIDATION MUST BE MADE ON THE SAME DAY. -------------------------------------------------- REISSUE MUST BE MADE THE SAME DAY AS CHANGE OF RESERVATION BUT NO LATER THAN SCHEDULED DEPARTURE TIME OF FLIGHT BEING CHANGED. OTHERWISE THE TICKET WILL ONLY BE VALID FOR REFUND IF APPLICABLE. -------------------------------------------------- WHEN MORE THAN ONE FARE COMPONENT IS CHANGED THE HIGHEST PENALTY OF ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS WITHIN THE JOURNEY APPLIES. -------------------------------------------------- --- REPRICING CONDITIONS --- A. BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY WHEN THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT IS CHANGED THE ITINERARY MUST BE RE-PRICED USING CURRENT FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE THE TICKET IS REISSUED. B. BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY WHEN CHANGES ARE TO BOOKING CODE ONLY IN THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT AND RESULT IN A HIGHER FARE THE ITINERARY MUST BE RE-PRICED USING HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE PREVIOUS TICKETING DATE OR USING CURRENT FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE THE TICKET IS REISSUED - WHICHEVER IS LOWER. C. BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY WHEN THERE ARE NO CHANGES TO THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT BUT OTHER FARE COMPONENTS ARE CHANGED THE ITINERARY MUST BE RE-PRICED USING HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE PREVIOUS TICKETING DATE OR USING CURRENT FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE THE TICKET IS REISSUED- WHICHEVER IS LOWER. D. AFTER DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY THE ITINERARY MUST BE RE-PRICED USING HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE PREVIOUS TICKETING DATE. -------------------------------------------------- 1. IF SAME BOOKING CLASS IS USED NEW TICKET VALUE MUST BE LOWER - EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS AND MUST COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE BEING APPLIED. 2. IF A DIFFERENT BOOKING CLASS IS USED NEW TICKET VALUE MUST BE EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS AND MUST COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE BEING APPLIED. -------------------------------------------------- WHEN THE ITINERARY RESULTS IN A HIGHER FARE THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE COLLECTED. ANY APPLICABLE CHANGE FEE STILL APPLIES. -------------------------------------------------- ANY NON-REFUNDABLE AMOUNT FROM A PREVIOUS TICKET REMAINS NON-REFUNDABLE FOLLOWING A CHANGE. -------------------------------------------------- NO-SHOWS FOR A FLIGHT ARE CONSIDERED A CANCELLATION AFTER DEPARTURE AND CHANGES ARE NOT PERMITTED.
For fare basis NLN0C1B5 (Outbound fare to GLA):
MINIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN
THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
TRAVEL FROM INBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR MUST COMMENCE
NO EARLIER THAN 7 DAYS AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE OUTBOUND
TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
MAXIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN
MIDNIGHT 12 MONTHS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN. STOPOVERS
STOPOVERS NOT PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT.
THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
TRAVEL FROM INBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR MUST COMMENCE
NO EARLIER THAN 7 DAYS AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE OUTBOUND
TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
MAXIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN
MIDNIGHT 12 MONTHS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN. STOPOVERS
STOPOVERS NOT PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT.
MINIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN
THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
TRAVEL FROM INBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR MUST COMMENCE
NO EARLIER THAN 7 DAYS AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE OUTBOUND
TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
MAXIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN
MIDNIGHT 12 MONTHS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.
STOPOVERS UNLIMITED STOPOVERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT AT
USD 400.00 EACH IN LON/MAD/HEL/BCN.
THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
TRAVEL FROM INBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR MUST COMMENCE
NO EARLIER THAN 7 DAYS AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE OUTBOUND
TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
MAXIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN
MIDNIGHT 12 MONTHS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.
STOPOVERS UNLIMITED STOPOVERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT AT
USD 400.00 EACH IN LON/MAD/HEL/BCN.
Here were my original plans - Sept 22 DEN-LHR-GLA arrive on Sep 23. GLA-LCY Sept 30. LHR-DEN Oct 3.
Here are my revised plans - Sept 25 DEN-LHR-GLA arrive on Sep 26. GLA-LCY Sept 30. LHR-DEN Oct 3.
Jun 29, 2022, 7:21 pm
#54
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 173
From what I have gleaned from all this is that if the fares that you (c-w-s) have identified are correct then I am not sure that the OP can even make the change he/she desires under the applicable fare rules. If the fare basis listing is correct then return travel cannot commence until the first Sunday after arrival at the turnaround(in this case GLA).
For fare basis NLN0C1B5 (Outbound fare to GLA):
For fare basis NLN0C1M5 (the fare for the inbound to the US):
So it won't be easy to change using these existing fares to the dates the OP now wants to fly. Of course, I remain somewhat unsure as to what has happened and what is intended.
For fare basis NLN0C1B5 (Outbound fare to GLA):
For fare basis NLN0C1M5 (the fare for the inbound to the US):
So it won't be easy to change using these existing fares to the dates the OP now wants to fly. Of course, I remain somewhat unsure as to what has happened and what is intended.
Is it due to the delta between GLA and LCY legs must be greater than 7 days?
Independant of this and whatever rules are for this fare basis, two things still apply:
1) I am willing to pay a fare change and ticket change to switch to Sept 25th. I have stated this on every call with BA. Are you saying that because of this langauge with NLN0C1B5, I cannot change to any day within 7 days of my flight to LCY?
a) If this is the case, It might be an interesting test on phone with BA to ask for a change on outbound to be BEFORE the Sept 22 date
2) These fare rules/basis language is not presented to any user when booking a "book and upgrade" on BAs site. All of this knowledge, details are coming out well after the booking date of Apr 18th AND it has required me to resort to this form to seek guidance. Again thank you corporate-wage-slave.
Also the note from KARFA (repeating above #2), stating some economy fares that start in US are not changeable, when doing a "book and upgrade" on BA's site, no details on the fare rules/basis are posted during the ordering process AND non after as well (re-inforced when I veiw my booking and it says NOTHING can be done via web site, please call BA desk. It is amazing that FinnAir, not even the carrier of record, has MORE details that BAs site.
I guess my ultimate point thru this entire process (again thank you for the help and guidance) is that there is no documentation/prompts when purchasing this type of fare on BAs site of fare basis rules and what IS and IS NOT changeable. Everything has been learned with the help of coprporate-wage-slave in the last 12 hours! And how can I as a consumer, be aware of this if it is never presented to me and I learn 6-7 weeks later when I have a request to change outbound?
Jun 30, 2022, 1:42 am
#55
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
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Independant of this and whatever rules are for this fare basis, two things still apply:
1) I am willing to pay a fare change and ticket change to switch to Sept 25th. I have stated this on every call with BA. Are you saying that because of this langauge with NLN0C1B5, I cannot change to any day within 7 days of my flight to LCY?
a) If this is the case, It might be an interesting test on phone with BA to ask for a change on outbound to be BEFORE the Sept 22 date
2) These fare rules/basis language is not presented to any user when booking a "book and upgrade" on BAs site. All of this knowledge, details are coming out well after the booking date of Apr 18th AND it has required me to resort to this form to seek guidance. Again thank you corporate-wage-slave.
Also the note from KARFA (repeating above #2), stating some economy fares that start in US are not changeable, when doing a "book and upgrade" on BA's site, no details on the fare rules/basis are posted during the ordering process AND non after as well (re-inforced when I veiw my booking and it says NOTHING can be done via web site, please call BA desk. It is amazing that FinnAir, not even the carrier of record, has MORE details that BAs site.
I guess my ultimate point thru this entire process (again thank you for the help and guidance) is that there is no documentation/prompts when purchasing this type of fare on BAs site of fare basis rules and what IS and IS NOT changeable. Everything has been learned with the help of coprporate-wage-slave in the last 12 hours! And how can I as a consumer, be aware of this if it is never presented to me and I learn 6-7 weeks later when I have a request to change outbound?
1) I am willing to pay a fare change and ticket change to switch to Sept 25th. I have stated this on every call with BA. Are you saying that because of this langauge with NLN0C1B5, I cannot change to any day within 7 days of my flight to LCY?
a) If this is the case, It might be an interesting test on phone with BA to ask for a change on outbound to be BEFORE the Sept 22 date
2) These fare rules/basis language is not presented to any user when booking a "book and upgrade" on BAs site. All of this knowledge, details are coming out well after the booking date of Apr 18th AND it has required me to resort to this form to seek guidance. Again thank you corporate-wage-slave.
Also the note from KARFA (repeating above #2), stating some economy fares that start in US are not changeable, when doing a "book and upgrade" on BA's site, no details on the fare rules/basis are posted during the ordering process AND non after as well (re-inforced when I veiw my booking and it says NOTHING can be done via web site, please call BA desk. It is amazing that FinnAir, not even the carrier of record, has MORE details that BAs site.
I guess my ultimate point thru this entire process (again thank you for the help and guidance) is that there is no documentation/prompts when purchasing this type of fare on BAs site of fare basis rules and what IS and IS NOT changeable. Everything has been learned with the help of coprporate-wage-slave in the last 12 hours! And how can I as a consumer, be aware of this if it is never presented to me and I learn 6-7 weeks later when I have a request to change outbound?
It is possible that your fare is non-changeable, or that what you want to change to isn't compatible with the fare rules that you can only start return travel on or after the first Sunday after arrival at the turnaround - i.e. if you arrive on Glasgow on a Monday you cannot start the return until Sunday if you want to use that fare. You have been given some suggestions now how to contact BA and get some answers.
Jun 30, 2022, 8:48 am
#56
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 173
your fare rules are shown during the booking process on the "Review your flights" page - the changeability of your fare has nothing to do with the subsequent UuA. I appreciate it is difficult to find the fare rules online once you have made the booking, but I think it is much harder to claim you were never told when you made the booking.
It is possible that your fare is non-changeable, or that what you want to change to isn't compatible with the fare rules that you can only start return travel on or after the first Sunday after arrival at the turnaround - i.e. if you arrive on Glasgow on a Monday you cannot start the return until Sunday if you want to use that fare. You have been given some suggestions now how to contact BA and get some answers.
It is possible that your fare is non-changeable, or that what you want to change to isn't compatible with the fare rules that you can only start return travel on or after the first Sunday after arrival at the turnaround - i.e. if you arrive on Glasgow on a Monday you cannot start the return until Sunday if you want to use that fare. You have been given some suggestions now how to contact BA and get some answers.
To do this booking, I logged in, went to book, selected book a flight with Avios, hit the "book and upgrade" tab, found a flight that had an OUTBOUND upgrade availablity (there are no availability for Sept 22 or Sept 25 so I pressed the find availability with BA on other dates and selected Sept30 outbound (this outbound is the same itenerary as mine just on Sept 30)), also selected "I want to break my journey and choose my stopovers' for the inbound (did exactly what I did for my booking on April 18th).
Here are the screen shots (I have already done this once before so appologize, but this is the ISSUE, so posting again).
The first 3 screens are what happens after selecting my flights (again Outbound only for "book and upgrade"). The change and refund conditions state, Changes to your upgrade are subject to the rules of your base commercial fare (again for the outbound)(KARFA this is the langageu that UuA is not TIED to the base fare as you state), the return/inbound says look and our terms and conditions below. OK so that gets us thru the first 3 screen captures below (No details like a regular booking like KARFA post), THEN you have to EXPAND the terms and conditions section (that is the next two screen captures, again I have posted before with a different cryptic code) to see the Base Fare conditions.
When you expand the terms and conditions, you get a cryptic code "qln0c1m5" for this dummy booking plus all of the conditions (I did not know what my exact cryptic code is as I did not screen capture my expanded T&Cs on my original booking). The change that I am wanting to do is referenced in the section that has "repricing conditions" on screen capture 4 and captured below for reference as well. I beleive all of the language in the "expanded terms and conditions" section is generic MINUS the crytic code presented at the top (does everyone agree?). This is where corporate-wage-slave helped my find my details on FinnAir's site (previous posted fare basis codes (again I had NO knowledge of my exact base fare conditions before the help and THANK YOU!). This is what I am going today by calling BA and ask for repricing of outbound with a super agent.
- Repricing conditions
- Reprice using any fare type except eru and eou. A. Before departure of journey when the first fare component is changed the itinerary must be re-priced using current fares in effect on the date the ticket is reissued. B. Before departure of journey when changes are to booking code only in the first fare component and result in a higher fare the itinerary must be re-priced using historical fares in effect on the previous ticketing date or using current fares in effect on the date the ticket is reissued - whichever is lower. C. Before departure of journey when there are no changes to the first fare component but other fare components are changed the itinerary must be re-priced using historical fares in effect on the previous ticketing date or using current fares in effect on the date the ticket is reissued- whichever is lower. D. After departure of journey the itinerary must be re-priced using historical fares in effect on the previous ticketing date.
- 1. If same booking class is used new ticket value must be lower - equal or higher than previous and must comply with all provisions of the new fare being applied. 2. If a different booking class is used new ticket value must be equal or higher than previous and must comply with all provisions of the new fare being applied.
- When the itinerary results in a higher fare the difference will be collected. Any applicable change fee still applies.
I also did the same "book and upgrade" and got the same cryptic code for a more than 7 day turnaround time, qln0c1m5 on the T&Cs page. Everything else was an exact copy of the less than 7 day "book and upgrade" dummy booking below.
If anyone can point to a section in the below screen shots that references ANYTHING about not being able to change the outbound for this dummy booking, let me know.
For my original booking, via FinnAir's site, I have the outbound and inbound fare basis and with the look up from ExpertFlyer, do not see anything in base dare around not being able to reprice.
Finally I am going to brave calling BA again today and hope I get a super agent.
Jun 30, 2022, 10:09 am
#57
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,660
KARFA, thank you for proving my point in your last post. YES you do see the fare information when you book a regular ticket. Here is what it looks like when you book a "book and upgrade" ticket. I have done the dreaded dummy booking but again I encourage anyone to show me where KARFAs detail shows up on a "book and upgrade" booking outside of what I am posting below. I would have LOVED to see the "Changes to your ticket" screen presented in my "book and upgrade" booking or any dummy booking I have made since using the "book and upgrade" portion of BAs web site (or better yet in my booking reference in manage my bookings!). KARFA I also agree with you that the UuA portion has nothing to do with base fare booking (it states it on the booking screen for "book and upgrade" below as well), but I do disagree with you as the T&Cs for the base fare booking are NOT presented like your example with "book and upgrade" process on BAs site (see below for screen by screen details of a "book and upgrade" experience on BAs site. This is my belabored point that I have been trying to make with this entire post (outside of actually making the change to my outbound of course). I guess I am not good at forum posting and detail understanding of BAs back office.
To do this booking, I logged in, went to book, selected book a flight with Avios, hit the "book and upgrade" tab, found a flight that had an OUTBOUND upgrade availablity (there are no availability for Sept 22 or Sept 25 so I pressed the find availability with BA on other dates and selected Sept30 outbound (this outbound is the same itenerary as mine just on Sept 30)), also selected "I want to break my journey and choose my stopovers' for the inbound (did exactly what I did for my booking on April 18th).
Here are the screen shots (I have already done this once before so appologize, but this is the ISSUE, so posting again).
The first 3 screens are what happens after selecting my flights (again Outbound only for "book and upgrade"). The change and refund conditions state, Changes to your upgrade are subject to the rules of your base commercial fare (again for the outbound)(KARFA this is the langageu that UuA is not TIED to the base fare as you state), the return/inbound says look and our terms and conditions below. OK so that gets us thru the first 3 screen captures below (No details like a regular booking like KARFA post), THEN you have to EXPAND the terms and conditions section (that is the next two screen captures, again I have posted before with a different cryptic code) to see the Base Fare conditions.
When you expand the terms and conditions, you get a cryptic code "qln0c1m5" for this dummy booking plus all of the conditions (I did not know what my exact cryptic code is as I did not screen capture my expanded T&Cs on my original booking). The change that I am wanting to do is referenced in the section that has "repricing conditions" on screen capture 4 and captured below for reference as well. I beleive all of the language in the "expanded terms and conditions" section is generic MINUS the crytic code presented at the top (does everyone agree?). This is where corporate-wage-slave helped my find my details on FinnAir's site (previous posted fare basis codes (again I had NO knowledge of my exact base fare conditions before the help and THANK YOU!). This is what I am going today by calling BA and ask for repricing of outbound with a super agent.
I also did the same "book and upgrade" and got the same cryptic code for a more than 7 day turnaround time, qln0c1m5 on the T&Cs page. Everything else was an exact copy of the less than 7 day "book and upgrade" dummy booking below.
If anyone can point to a section in the below screen shots that references ANYTHING about not being able to change the outbound for this dummy booking, let me know.
For my original booking, via FinnAir's site, I have the outbound and inbound fare basis and with the look up from ExpertFlyer, do not see anything in base dare around not being able to reprice.
Finally I am going to brave calling BA again today and hope I get a super agent.
To do this booking, I logged in, went to book, selected book a flight with Avios, hit the "book and upgrade" tab, found a flight that had an OUTBOUND upgrade availablity (there are no availability for Sept 22 or Sept 25 so I pressed the find availability with BA on other dates and selected Sept30 outbound (this outbound is the same itenerary as mine just on Sept 30)), also selected "I want to break my journey and choose my stopovers' for the inbound (did exactly what I did for my booking on April 18th).
Here are the screen shots (I have already done this once before so appologize, but this is the ISSUE, so posting again).
The first 3 screens are what happens after selecting my flights (again Outbound only for "book and upgrade"). The change and refund conditions state, Changes to your upgrade are subject to the rules of your base commercial fare (again for the outbound)(KARFA this is the langageu that UuA is not TIED to the base fare as you state), the return/inbound says look and our terms and conditions below. OK so that gets us thru the first 3 screen captures below (No details like a regular booking like KARFA post), THEN you have to EXPAND the terms and conditions section (that is the next two screen captures, again I have posted before with a different cryptic code) to see the Base Fare conditions.
When you expand the terms and conditions, you get a cryptic code "qln0c1m5" for this dummy booking plus all of the conditions (I did not know what my exact cryptic code is as I did not screen capture my expanded T&Cs on my original booking). The change that I am wanting to do is referenced in the section that has "repricing conditions" on screen capture 4 and captured below for reference as well. I beleive all of the language in the "expanded terms and conditions" section is generic MINUS the crytic code presented at the top (does everyone agree?). This is where corporate-wage-slave helped my find my details on FinnAir's site (previous posted fare basis codes (again I had NO knowledge of my exact base fare conditions before the help and THANK YOU!). This is what I am going today by calling BA and ask for repricing of outbound with a super agent.
- Repricing conditions
- Reprice using any fare type except eru and eou. A. Before departure of journey when the first fare component is changed the itinerary must be re-priced using current fares in effect on the date the ticket is reissued. B. Before departure of journey when changes are to booking code only in the first fare component and result in a higher fare the itinerary must be re-priced using historical fares in effect on the previous ticketing date or using current fares in effect on the date the ticket is reissued - whichever is lower. C. Before departure of journey when there are no changes to the first fare component but other fare components are changed the itinerary must be re-priced using historical fares in effect on the previous ticketing date or using current fares in effect on the date the ticket is reissued- whichever is lower. D. After departure of journey the itinerary must be re-priced using historical fares in effect on the previous ticketing date.
- 1. If same booking class is used new ticket value must be lower - equal or higher than previous and must comply with all provisions of the new fare being applied. 2. If a different booking class is used new ticket value must be equal or higher than previous and must comply with all provisions of the new fare being applied.
- When the itinerary results in a higher fare the difference will be collected. Any applicable change fee still applies.
I also did the same "book and upgrade" and got the same cryptic code for a more than 7 day turnaround time, qln0c1m5 on the T&Cs page. Everything else was an exact copy of the less than 7 day "book and upgrade" dummy booking below.
If anyone can point to a section in the below screen shots that references ANYTHING about not being able to change the outbound for this dummy booking, let me know.
For my original booking, via FinnAir's site, I have the outbound and inbound fare basis and with the look up from ExpertFlyer, do not see anything in base dare around not being able to reprice.
Finally I am going to brave calling BA again today and hope I get a super agent.
Jun 30, 2022, 10:10 am
#58
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: JAX
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I beleive [sic] all of the language in the "expanded terms and conditions" section is generic MINUS the crytic [sic] code presented at the top (does everyone agree?).
Yes, there's a lot of conditions and sometimes you have to expand sections when going through the booking process so you can read them, and no it's not always easy (or possible) to find them again afterwards, but they are presented.
Some customers want/need to read all the technical language, others only want a summary of salient points. BA gives a version of both options, as per your screenshots. I had more than one escalated call when I worked for BA, saying that more things on BA.com should be highlighted in red as important - but to where almost everything would have been red... Can't win.
If your fare is indeed non-changeable as it appears to be, then it would have been displayed as you went through the booking process originally. You'd have got similar to your screenshots, but with appropriate wording for the fare you were getting. Wording that is hard to pull up again afterwards without access to additional systems.
Jun 30, 2022, 11:27 am
#59
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Your cryptic code (fare basis) is NLN0C1B5 (the B5 part on the end means it's a basic economy fare, which are usually very restricted).
No, it varies from fare type to fare type. Non-changeable fares (as it seems yours might be) won't have repricing conditions because they can't be repriced... Instead of paragraphs about 'Charges for Changes and Cancellations' it'll say something more along the lines of: Changes are not permitted. Refunds are not permitted.
Yes, there's a lot of conditions and sometimes you have to expand sections when going through the booking process so you can read them, and no it's not always easy (or possible) to find them again afterwards, but they are presented.
Some customers want/need to read all the technical language, others only want a summary of salient points. BA gives a version of both options, as per your screenshots. I had more than one escalated call when I worked for BA, saying that more things on BA.com should be highlighted in red as important - but to where almost everything would have been red... Can't win.
If your fare is indeed non-changeable as it appears to be, then it would have been displayed as you went through the booking process originally. You'd have got similar to your screenshots, but with appropriate wording for the fare you were getting. Wording that is hard to pull up again afterwards without access to additional systems.
When you book a ticket under the "book and upgrade tab, your choices for travel class before upgrade, your choices are: Economy (NO REFERENCE to BASIC vs STANDARD economy), Premium Economy, or Business/Club.
When I booked as well as did this dummy booking, I selected economy and then selected an eligible off-peak UPGRADE to World Traveller Plus.
So are you saying that me as a consumer of BA's I need to KNOW the cryptic code (not sure what my cryptic code for my booking on April 18th) correlates to a fare basis code THAT IS NEVER PRESENTED in the BOOKING process NOR in my record at BA (again found at FinnAir) that then is used to NOT allow me to make an outbound change becuase of said fare basis code?
I get when you make a standard booking, you get to CHOOSE basic economy, standard economy or something else. My entire POINT of this post is there is no SUCH PROCESS for "book and upgrade"
I have been notified by BA from the FIRST TIME I called in that the outbound was non changable (hence why I tried to change return and live within BWC rules).
However, no where, and I repeat NO WHERE via the "book and upgrade" process nor the manage my bookings AFTER booking SHOWS this outside of this cryptic code.
So my point is: Why should I, as a consumer, need to know the details of the cryptic code AND need to start this entire thread to learn that my cryptic code from my original booking = NLN0C1B5 (the B5 part on the end means it's a basic economy fare, which are usually very restricted).
Is that MY responsibility to know these codes OR is it British Airways to present me with CLEAR information on what I am booking?
Jun 30, 2022, 11:40 am
#60
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Posts: 42,997
Did you make a booking first and then do the upgrade after (online or by calling), or did you do it all together online in one go?