British Airways change in Conditions of Carriage after 30/9/22
Jun 21, 2022, 3:05 pm
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 172
Thanks. It is quite hard to pick out exactly what is going on from your post tbh, but I have tried to summarise the situation.
BA's position when you booked on 18 April was clear, BWC only applied to bookings where travel was completed by the end of September 2022. You chose to make a booking with some flights beyond that date so clearly BWC did not apply and you are not eligible to obtain a future travel voucher for your booking.
BA as of 8 June have said no new bookings will get BWC. Also as I noted you can't change an existing booking which doesn't have BWC so that it becomes eligible. I understand you are asking for quotes to change but have not actually done the change yet.
If your purpose of changing your booking is purely so it falls within BWC you are wasting your time.
Obviously if you are changing your booking because you need to travel on the new dates, that's fine but since your booking never qualified for BWC any change is based on fare rules which means change fee if applicable and fare difference. If the new dates are cheaper you are not due a refund since pretty much all fares say in the case of a change to a new itinerary where the new price is lower a refund is not given of the surplus - basically because the underlying fare is original fare is not refundable. If the new dates are more expensive you pay the change fee and fare difference. Any further changes beyond that will again be based on the fare rules.
It really is that simple.
BA's position when you booked on 18 April was clear, BWC only applied to bookings where travel was completed by the end of September 2022. You chose to make a booking with some flights beyond that date so clearly BWC did not apply and you are not eligible to obtain a future travel voucher for your booking.
BA as of 8 June have said no new bookings will get BWC. Also as I noted you can't change an existing booking which doesn't have BWC so that it becomes eligible. I understand you are asking for quotes to change but have not actually done the change yet.
If your purpose of changing your booking is purely so it falls within BWC you are wasting your time.
Obviously if you are changing your booking because you need to travel on the new dates, that's fine but since your booking never qualified for BWC any change is based on fare rules which means change fee if applicable and fare difference. If the new dates are cheaper you are not due a refund since pretty much all fares say in the case of a change to a new itinerary where the new price is lower a refund is not given of the surplus - basically because the underlying fare is original fare is not refundable. If the new dates are more expensive you pay the change fee and fare difference. Any further changes beyond that will again be based on the fare rules.
It really is that simple.
Question to KARFA, since I now have all my flights before 30/9 date, I beleive I can cancel and get a voucher. Is this correct? Since my current reciept shows my total CC spend (again does not show AVIOS, but the new return was DOWNGRADED to World Traveller from WTP but the original outbound (date before 30/9) was not changed and has AVIOS and Plus still there.
Net net, with the changes to ticket itenerary, I can now CANCEL entire flight AND get a voucher. Just not sure what ALL will be returned due to the conveluted rules/T&Cs of BA...
I can see this on my e-reciept BEFORE and AFTER the requested change that they put on account today.
Before fare details: USD 645 + Tax/Fee/Change USD 1048.77 = USD 1693.77
AFTER agengt changed flights today to all be within 30/9: USD 245 BUT THE payment total still shows 1693.77.
So what HAPPENS if I cancel flight right now? What do I lose???
Feedback welcome. Thanks!
Last edited by kimbray; Jun 21, 2022 at 3:09 pm Reason: Adding
Jun 21, 2022, 3:10 pm
#17
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,964
Do you actually want to travel? I am confused whether you do or not since you seem to want a voucher.
If you cancel your booking now, assuming it is a non-refundable booking, any refund will be based on the fare rules. You are likely to only get back some taxes and fees.
Jun 21, 2022, 3:44 pm
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 172
No. As the risk of repeating myself, your booking when you made it didn't qualify for BWC and any changes you do now will not make it eligible. Your booking will never be in scope for BWC regardless of what you do to it, and you will not be able to get a future travel voucher either. The vouchers were a part of the BWC policy.
Do you actually want to travel? I am confused whether you do or not since you seem to want a voucher.
If you cancel your booking now, assuming it is a non-refundable booking, any refund will be based on the fare rules. You are likely to only get back some taxes and fees.
Do you actually want to travel? I am confused whether you do or not since you seem to want a voucher.
If you cancel your booking now, assuming it is a non-refundable booking, any refund will be based on the fare rules. You are likely to only get back some taxes and fees.
My original booking was as follows:
DEN-LHR-GLA on 9/21 arrive on 9/22
GLA -LCY on 9/30
LHR -DEN on 10/3
My change is on OUTBOUND only:
DEN-LHR-GLA on 9/25 to arrive 9/26
Since I am across the BWC date, I was unable to change my outbound, so via coaching below from ScienceTeacher, I requested a change to return to occure BEFORE 30/9. ScienceTeacher was able to change for 60 pounds (again ssee below). This is what prompted me to start on this journey to change. I was going to get entire booking before 30/9 and then cancel for voucher and then rebook. This is different to what you are stating on this thread, but I already started process and called in today and they changed my itenerary to occur all before 30/9 WITHOUT informing me of loss of $$. They did state on the call that I would lose $400 for the layover in London as I was originally returning direct BUT my record locator now has following.
Current same record locator:
DEN-LHR-GLA on 21/9 to arrive 22/9
GLA - LHR 29/9
LHR - DEN 30/9
They have changed the record to include the layover in London that was reducing my voucher by $400 (did not realize that BA charged you $400 for the ability to layover, again in future I will do a multi city if I ever fly BA again as cheaper AND more flexible).
Lastly, I will point out in my e-receipt that it shows now for my booking that Ticket(s) Valid until 22 Sep 2023. This is NOW within the BWC rules/timeframe as ScienceTeacher pointed out early in this thread.
HOWEVER, I still do not know if I cancel WHAT I will get as a voucher. I think the best thing to do is wait a few days for the BACKOFFICE of British Airways to calculate things and provide feedback.
Jun 21, 2022, 5:06 pm
#19
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
The point made by KARFA is that the change to bring the ticket within the BWC date would only have worked if you had made that change prior to June 7th, To be eligible for BWC, there are several conditions that have to be satisfied: (a) the ticket must have been issued before June 8th and (b) travel must be completed by end of Sept 2022. Your problem before making the change was that your ticket satisfied (a) but not (b). Your problem now is that your ticket satisfies (b) but not (a), since the ticket incorporating the changes was issued after June 7th. In both cases, the ticket is not eligible for BWC. If a BA phone agent advised you otherwise on the phone, you might have a case to ask for the rules to be waived in your case but your ticket is in principle not eligible for BWC.
Jun 21, 2022, 7:51 pm
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 172
The point made by KARFA is that the change to bring the ticket within the BWC date would only have worked if you had made that change prior to June 7th, To be eligible for BWC, there are several conditions that have to be satisfied: (a) the ticket must have been issued before June 8th and (b) travel must be completed by end of Sept 2022. Your problem before making the change was that your ticket satisfied (a) but not (b). Your problem now is that your ticket satisfies (b) but not (a), since the ticket incorporating the changes was issued after June 7th. In both cases, the ticket is not eligible for BWC. If a BA phone agent advised you otherwise on the phone, you might have a case to ask for the rules to be waived in your case but your ticket is in principle not eligible for BWC.
I guess I am going to need to call in and try to get back to my original flights/Avios upgrades. I am fearful that this is not the case. I was VERY transparant with every agent I was talking to live on what I was trying to do (similar to this thread). No one along the way would say it would not work/don't do that.
Now I have a ticket where I don't have the OUTBOUND I want AND NOW due to dealing with an agent today (again not sharing any remafications of my change a RETURN I do not want either.
Since my ticket was base plus Avios, I could not see ANY of the language that you have put in this thread (outside of the notification on 6/8 of the change of carriage BA post). Whenever I went to my ticket, all changes required me to call in which I did. Again NO ONE notified me that this would not work.
I guess I have two remaining items that I need help on:
1) What can I do now as basically I do not have a ticket that is usable either way for my trip. Am I out $1,600 and 32,500 Avios?
2) What is the process for me to pay a change fee to a leg of a flight on BA going forward as this is what I wanted to do for the OUTBOUND referenced below? In the US, before COVID, I was able to change flight/date with a change fee PLUS difference in fare on many US airlines.
Thanks for finally making me understand. Again the agents never provided me ANY of these details. Even today an agent said I would get a voucher for changing my return to new below trip return today. Everyone I have been working with on every call is in India and has put me on hold multiple times on every call, BUT never shared that I could not do what I was trying to do or instruct me on the value lost of ticket.
Worst case, I do believe the FEES/Surcharges would come back and not the fare. Is that correct? I do not trust anything the BA line is stating to me in the process.
Originally per below the fare was 645 and now it is 245. That is the delta of $400 that the agent stated for NOT making a stop in London (but ticket now has but not confirmed with back office).
Before fare details: USD 645 + Tax/Fee/Change USD 1048.77 = USD 1693.77
AFTER agengt changed flights today to all be within 30/9: USD 245 BUT THE payment total still shows 1693.77.
Again, thanks for getting me straight on this AS NO ONE on the phone has shared this detail with me!
Jun 22, 2022, 2:14 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
From your description, it does not sound that any BA agent told you that your ticket was eligible for BWC or would become eligible for BWC but you assumed that it would be. In that situation, it seems to me unlikely that BA would waive the BWC rules for you. They might not have told you that what you intended to do would not work but it sounds like you did not ask them whether it would so they did not look into it.
If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do:
First thing, call BA to confirm whether or not your ticket is eligible or BWC. If Karfa and I are correct, they should confirm that it is not eligible but better to double-check.
If it is not eligible, equip yourself with the dates of the flights that you do want to fly on and see what they tell you the cost would be to change to those flights. There will be a change fee (which should be the same as the change fee your paid when you change your ticket) plus the fare difference between your currently ticketed itinerary and the itinerary that you want to fly instead. Armed with this knowledge, you will be in a better position to decide what it is you want to do. If you have some flexibility with dates, you may want to look around for dates which generate a lower rather than a higher fare difference.
What you could do before calling is look on ba.com for the cost of the flights if you were to buy a ticket right now and look for the cheaper fares around the dates that you want then phone BA and ask them to price up the cost of changing your current flights to those new flights. If you are happy with that cost, then go ahead. If not, you will have some more thinking to do as to what you want to do.
If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do:
First thing, call BA to confirm whether or not your ticket is eligible or BWC. If Karfa and I are correct, they should confirm that it is not eligible but better to double-check.
If it is not eligible, equip yourself with the dates of the flights that you do want to fly on and see what they tell you the cost would be to change to those flights. There will be a change fee (which should be the same as the change fee your paid when you change your ticket) plus the fare difference between your currently ticketed itinerary and the itinerary that you want to fly instead. Armed with this knowledge, you will be in a better position to decide what it is you want to do. If you have some flexibility with dates, you may want to look around for dates which generate a lower rather than a higher fare difference.
What you could do before calling is look on ba.com for the cost of the flights if you were to buy a ticket right now and look for the cheaper fares around the dates that you want then phone BA and ask them to price up the cost of changing your current flights to those new flights. If you are happy with that cost, then go ahead. If not, you will have some more thinking to do as to what you want to do.
Jun 22, 2022, 2:19 am
#22
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,659
Thanks. I now understand. In all my interactions with the BA Blue line, NO ONE made me aware of this. I was very clear on what I was trying to do. No one read or commented that my approach would not work.
I guess I am going to need to call in and try to get back to my original flights/Avios upgrades. I am fearful that this is not the case. I was VERY transparant with every agent I was talking to live on what I was trying to do (similar to this thread). No one along the way would say it would not work/don't do that.
Now I have a ticket where I don't have the OUTBOUND I want AND NOW due to dealing with an agent today (again not sharing any remafications of my change a RETURN I do not want either.
Since my ticket was base plus Avios, I could not see ANY of the language that you have put in this thread (outside of the notification on 6/8 of the change of carriage BA post). Whenever I went to my ticket, all changes required me to call in which I did. Again NO ONE notified me that this would not work.
I guess I have two remaining items that I need help on:
1) What can I do now as basically I do not have a ticket that is usable either way for my trip. Am I out $1,600 and 32,500 Avios?
2) What is the process for me to pay a change fee to a leg of a flight on BA going forward as this is what I wanted to do for the OUTBOUND referenced below? In the US, before COVID, I was able to change flight/date with a change fee PLUS difference in fare on many US airlines.
Thanks for finally making me understand. Again the agents never provided me ANY of these details. Even today an agent said I would get a voucher for changing my return to new below trip return today. Everyone I have been working with on every call is in India and has put me on hold multiple times on every call, BUT never shared that I could not do what I was trying to do or instruct me on the value lost of ticket.
Worst case, I do believe the FEES/Surcharges would come back and not the fare. Is that correct? I do not trust anything the BA line is stating to me in the process.
Originally per below the fare was 645 and now it is 245. That is the delta of $400 that the agent stated for NOT making a stop in London (but ticket now has but not confirmed with back office).
Before fare details: USD 645 + Tax/Fee/Change USD 1048.77 = USD 1693.77
AFTER agengt changed flights today to all be within 30/9: USD 245 BUT THE payment total still shows 1693.77.
Again, thanks for getting me straight on this AS NO ONE on the phone has shared this detail with me!
I guess I am going to need to call in and try to get back to my original flights/Avios upgrades. I am fearful that this is not the case. I was VERY transparant with every agent I was talking to live on what I was trying to do (similar to this thread). No one along the way would say it would not work/don't do that.
Now I have a ticket where I don't have the OUTBOUND I want AND NOW due to dealing with an agent today (again not sharing any remafications of my change a RETURN I do not want either.
Since my ticket was base plus Avios, I could not see ANY of the language that you have put in this thread (outside of the notification on 6/8 of the change of carriage BA post). Whenever I went to my ticket, all changes required me to call in which I did. Again NO ONE notified me that this would not work.
I guess I have two remaining items that I need help on:
1) What can I do now as basically I do not have a ticket that is usable either way for my trip. Am I out $1,600 and 32,500 Avios?
2) What is the process for me to pay a change fee to a leg of a flight on BA going forward as this is what I wanted to do for the OUTBOUND referenced below? In the US, before COVID, I was able to change flight/date with a change fee PLUS difference in fare on many US airlines.
Thanks for finally making me understand. Again the agents never provided me ANY of these details. Even today an agent said I would get a voucher for changing my return to new below trip return today. Everyone I have been working with on every call is in India and has put me on hold multiple times on every call, BUT never shared that I could not do what I was trying to do or instruct me on the value lost of ticket.
Worst case, I do believe the FEES/Surcharges would come back and not the fare. Is that correct? I do not trust anything the BA line is stating to me in the process.
Originally per below the fare was 645 and now it is 245. That is the delta of $400 that the agent stated for NOT making a stop in London (but ticket now has but not confirmed with back office).
Before fare details: USD 645 + Tax/Fee/Change USD 1048.77 = USD 1693.77
AFTER agengt changed flights today to all be within 30/9: USD 245 BUT THE payment total still shows 1693.77.
Again, thanks for getting me straight on this AS NO ONE on the phone has shared this detail with me!
Jun 22, 2022, 7:00 am
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 172
From your description, it does not sound that any BA agent told you that your ticket was eligible for BWC or would become eligible for BWC but you assumed that it would be. In that situation, it seems to me unlikely that BA would waive the BWC rules for you. They might not have told you that what you intended to do would not work but it sounds like you did not ask them whether it would so they did not look into it.
If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do:
First thing, call BA to confirm whether or not your ticket is eligible or BWC. If Karfa and I are correct, they should confirm that it is not eligible but better to double-check.
If it is not eligible, equip yourself with the dates of the flights that you do want to fly on and see what they tell you the cost would be to change to those flights. There will be a change fee (which should be the same as the change fee your paid when you change your ticket) plus the fare difference between your currently ticketed itinerary and the itinerary that you want to fly instead. Armed with this knowledge, you will be in a better position to decide what it is you want to do. If you have some flexibility with dates, you may want to look around for dates which generate a lower rather than a higher fare difference.
What you could do before calling is look on ba.com for the cost of the flights if you were to buy a ticket right now and look for the cheaper fares around the dates that you want then phone BA and ask them to price up the cost of changing your current flights to those new flights. If you are happy with that cost, then go ahead. If not, you will have some more thinking to do as to what you want to do.
If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do:
First thing, call BA to confirm whether or not your ticket is eligible or BWC. If Karfa and I are correct, they should confirm that it is not eligible but better to double-check.
If it is not eligible, equip yourself with the dates of the flights that you do want to fly on and see what they tell you the cost would be to change to those flights. There will be a change fee (which should be the same as the change fee your paid when you change your ticket) plus the fare difference between your currently ticketed itinerary and the itinerary that you want to fly instead. Armed with this knowledge, you will be in a better position to decide what it is you want to do. If you have some flexibility with dates, you may want to look around for dates which generate a lower rather than a higher fare difference.
What you could do before calling is look on ba.com for the cost of the flights if you were to buy a ticket right now and look for the cheaper fares around the dates that you want then phone BA and ask them to price up the cost of changing your current flights to those new flights. If you are happy with that cost, then go ahead. If not, you will have some more thinking to do as to what you want to do.
I have never started or intended to ask for a redund, just a change of the outbound. But no agent advised me on the best way to do.
I will call in again today. However, when I get on phone I will ask for escalation. I would be within 24 of change, but not sure that would matter...
Thank you all.
Jun 22, 2022, 8:38 am
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 172
What you could do before calling is look on ba.com for the cost of the flights if you were to buy a ticket right now and look for the cheaper fares around the dates that you want then phone BA and ask them to price up the cost of changing your current flights to those new flights. If you are happy with that cost, then go ahead. If not, you will have some more thinking to do as to what you want to do.
My previous itenerary was 32,500 and 1693.77
My new itenerary request (I would take out the GLA to LCY and pay seperately) is $862 for economy OR $1,575 for Plus. This is without the upgrade with Avios.
On all calls, I was armed with this data and asked to change my itenerary with change fees to this need request.
On all calls, they said I could not change my outbound. Assumed it was class of service/T&Cs BUT I could not see/read them on ticket or online (based on Avios upgrade).
That is why I changed RETURN to be within 30/9.
I will call in again today and see what can be done.
Thank you all for your insight. I have never had this challenge with changing a ticket/flight.
Jun 22, 2022, 11:53 am
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,214
Government and airport fees will be refundable. Carrier-imposed surcharges, AKA fuel surcharges, AKA YQ, will not.
Jun 25, 2022, 8:10 am
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 172
Ultimate question for everyone: Where do I find my original fare conditions in my purchase record???
OK all, thank you for your continued help on this. I called BA again. First one, they were able to get flights back to original state. The ONLY and original goal I had was to change my outbound from 22nd to 25th. The ticket I purchased was World Traveler and then upgraded with Avios to World Traveler Plus. The fare code is N in both directs as the DEN-LHR and LHR-DEN dictate per BA person. They are saying that my outbound ticket is UNABLE to ba changed based on fare class, but the return can. They are stating that when I booked the ticket there was language at the bottom of the purchase screen that said the outbound could not be changed. However the return could be changed (as you can see from below, I changed the return and finally changed back to original dates).
I am use to fare classes in US that are tied to naming conventions like, BASIC economy, Economy, Premium Economy as opposed to having a paragraph at the end of the booking that says what I can and cannot do with ticket.
Few questions:
With a booking code of N in BOTH dirctions, WHY is the outbound UNCHANGABLE, and the return IS CHANGABLE (same exact booking coding).
How come right NOW on BA's site, I can book a standard economy ticket for $832 Roundtrip with a base fare of $181 (My original base fare was $265) that now when I look has BELOW the agree and continue, Your ticket conditions Changes to your ticket Changes permitted at any time for the difference in fare. Changes subject to availability.
I am WONDERING if I did base fare and upgraded with Avios, and now the upgrade is not available for the 25th (my new outbound), does the changes subject to availabity apply and that is WHY I cannot change?
I am asking BA to send me the details in the ticket that show the outbound is UNABLE to be changed and the Return is able to be changed with same booking class and code.
Can anyone help where I would find on my ORIGINAL booking the language above around changes permitted or not. I cannot seem to find on any documentation from BA that I WAS UNABLE ot change the ticket after booking (except if they had BELOW the argee and continue section of the purchase.
Thank you!
OK all, thank you for your continued help on this. I called BA again. First one, they were able to get flights back to original state. The ONLY and original goal I had was to change my outbound from 22nd to 25th. The ticket I purchased was World Traveler and then upgraded with Avios to World Traveler Plus. The fare code is N in both directs as the DEN-LHR and LHR-DEN dictate per BA person. They are saying that my outbound ticket is UNABLE to ba changed based on fare class, but the return can. They are stating that when I booked the ticket there was language at the bottom of the purchase screen that said the outbound could not be changed. However the return could be changed (as you can see from below, I changed the return and finally changed back to original dates).
I am use to fare classes in US that are tied to naming conventions like, BASIC economy, Economy, Premium Economy as opposed to having a paragraph at the end of the booking that says what I can and cannot do with ticket.
Few questions:
With a booking code of N in BOTH dirctions, WHY is the outbound UNCHANGABLE, and the return IS CHANGABLE (same exact booking coding).
How come right NOW on BA's site, I can book a standard economy ticket for $832 Roundtrip with a base fare of $181 (My original base fare was $265) that now when I look has BELOW the agree and continue, Your ticket conditions Changes to your ticket Changes permitted at any time for the difference in fare. Changes subject to availability.
I am WONDERING if I did base fare and upgraded with Avios, and now the upgrade is not available for the 25th (my new outbound), does the changes subject to availabity apply and that is WHY I cannot change?
I am asking BA to send me the details in the ticket that show the outbound is UNABLE to be changed and the Return is able to be changed with same booking class and code.
Can anyone help where I would find on my ORIGINAL booking the language above around changes permitted or not. I cannot seem to find on any documentation from BA that I WAS UNABLE ot change the ticket after booking (except if they had BELOW the argee and continue section of the purchase.
Thank you!
Jun 25, 2022, 8:16 am
#27
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,964
I honestly still have no clue what you actually want to do with this booking and it would help if you could let us know.
Do you want to fly it on the originally booked flights? Do you want to change it to new dates because you want to travel on those new dates? Or do you not want to fly this booking at all and just want to cancel?
Do you want to fly it on the originally booked flights? Do you want to change it to new dates because you want to travel on those new dates? Or do you not want to fly this booking at all and just want to cancel?
Jun 25, 2022, 8:45 am
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 172
I honestly still have no clue what you actually want to do with this booking and it would help if you could let us know.
Do you want to fly it on the originally booked flights? Do you want to change it to new dates because you want to travel on those new dates? Or do you not want to fly this booking at all and just want to cancel?
Do you want to fly it on the originally booked flights? Do you want to change it to new dates because you want to travel on those new dates? Or do you not want to fly this booking at all and just want to cancel?
I booked the ticket all at the same time online via book and upgrade. I selected all of the flights I wanted and they were available with Avios upgrade. I selected break my journey and chose my stopovers.
All flights were off peak. I selected World Traveler Plus for DEN-LHR-GLA leg, Club Europe for GLA-LCY leg and World Traveler Plus for LHR-DEN
I just REDID this on BA site (different dates as mine are not avaialble anymore). But was doing to see the condition of carriage.
Here they are:Denver International (CO) to Heathrow (London)
(This is an off-peak flight)
Changes to your upgrades are subject to the rules of your base commercial fare. See Terms and Conditions below.
Where the base commercial fare rules permit a change the following rules also apply (THERE ARE NO NOTES ON THE BOOKING PAGE OF THE BASE COMMERCIAL FARE RULES, only the BELOW). BA is saying that MY BASE FARE in booking for OUTBOUND does not allow for change.
- Time/date changes to these upgraded flights are permitted up to 24 hours before the first flight in your booking, subject to availability, for a service fee. A change fee may also apply depending on the conditions of the original flight that you upgraded.
- You may need to pay an additional cash amount if the cost of your new flight, in the cabin from which you are upgrading, is greater than your original flight.
- When you change between a peak to an off-peak date, or vice versa, the difference will be calculated and if the original ticket cost more Avios than the new ticket, you will be refunded the difference in Avios. If the original ticket costs less Avios than the new ticket, you will be required to pay additional Avios.
Here are my revised plans - Sept 25 DEN-LHR-GLA arrive on Sep 26. GLA-LCY Sept 30. LHR-DEN Oct 3.
My intent has always been to fly.
My intent, and I shared with everyone on phone with BA, was to just change my OUTBOUND DEN-LHR-GLA.
Reading above when I booked the flight (again do not have a screen shot/record of the T&Cs for my exact itenerary, IT CLEARLY STATES that TIME/DATE changes are permitted, subject to avaialbity for change fee/delta cost.
On the FIRST call with BA, the agent talked about DOWNGRADING the outbound to change the date and I said SURE, then she said I could not change outbound. This is what started this wonderful journey.... This is when I created this thread and asked what I could do. Someone recommended changing the RETURN to be before 9/30..
My flights now are BACK to the original plans above with World Traveller Plus on both international legs.
Here is what i want to do, and have been wanting to do ALL along, is change my ourbound from Sept 22 to Sept 25.
BA is saying that is not possible based on the terms of my fare.
I can change the return but not the outbound. No changes permitted on outbound. This is my new/now real question, WHY can I not change outbound?
Via BAs booking process of book and upgrade, where do I find the base commercial fare rules per leg? Based on me redoing it today the exact way I did it back in April, there is NO langague on booking/purchase page outside of above, so how as a consumer do I know that MY OUTBOUND cannot be changed and my RETURN can? Where is the documentation on this at time of booking or on my ticket/record locator?
The ticket booking code is the same both way "N" per agent, but upgraded to Plus class.
The reason I changed the return was to get it into the BWC time period, and I told all agents that is what I was doing.
Even 2 days ago when I called and asked if this ticket was BWC, the agent said YES. I was about to cancel and get voucher and REBOOK as the fare/class of service/EVERYTHING is sheaper than two months ago when I booked but I tought the better of it as based on your feedback I was unsure I would get a voucher.
Let me know if this all makes sense. Tried to convey via above and you can see all of the history here of the back and forth.
Thanks!
Last edited by kimbray; Jun 25, 2022 at 9:19 am
Jun 26, 2022, 9:45 am
#29
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,659
Here were my original plans - Sept 22 DEN-LHR-GLA arrive on Sep 23. GLA-LCY Sept 30. LHR-DEN Oct 3.
I booked the ticket all at the same time online via book and upgrade. I selected all of the flights I wanted and they were available with Avios upgrade. I selected break my journey and chose my stopovers.
All flights were off peak. I selected World Traveler Plus for DEN-LHR-GLA leg, Club Europe for GLA-LCY leg and World Traveler Plus for LHR-DEN
I just REDID this on BA site (different dates as mine are not avaialble anymore). But was doing to see the condition of carriage.
Here they are:Denver International (CO) to Heathrow (London)
(This is an off-peak flight)
Changes to your upgrades are subject to the rules of your base commercial fare. See Terms and Conditions below.
Where the base commercial fare rules permit a change the following rules also apply (THERE ARE NO NOTES ON THE BOOKING PAGE OF THE BASE COMMERCIAL FARE RULES, only the BELOW). BA is saying that MY BASE FARE in booking for OUTBOUND does not allow for change.
Here are my revised plans - Sept 25 DEN-LHR-GLA arrive on Sep 26. GLA-LCY Sept 30. LHR-DEN Oct 3.
My intent has always been to fly.
My intent, and I shared with everyone on phone with BA, was to just change my OUTBOUND DEN-LHR-GLA.
Reading above when I booked the flight (again do not have a screen shot/record of the T&Cs for my exact itenerary, IT CLEARLY STATES that TIME/DATE changes are permitted, subject to avaialbity for change fee/delta cost.
On the FIRST call with BA, the agent talked about DOWNGRADING the outbound to change the date and I said SURE, then she said I could not change outbound. This is what started this wonderful journey.... This is when I created this thread and asked what I could do. Someone recommended changing the RETURN to be before 9/30..
My flights now are BACK to the original plans above with World Traveller Plus on both international legs.
Here is what i want to do, and have been wanting to do ALL along, is change my ourbound from Sept 22 to Sept 25.
BA is saying that is not possible based on the terms of my fare.
I can change the return but not the outbound. No changes permitted on outbound. This is my new/now real question, WHY can I not change outbound?
Via BAs booking process of book and upgrade, where do I find the base commercial fare rules per leg? Based on me redoing it today the exact way I did it back in April, there is NO langague on booking/purchase page outside of above, so how as a consumer do I know that MY OUTBOUND cannot be changed and my RETURN can? Where is the documentation on this at time of booking or on my ticket/record locator?
The ticket booking code is the same both way "N" per agent, but upgraded to Plus class.
The reason I changed the return was to get it into the BWC time period, and I told all agents that is what I was doing.
Even 2 days ago when I called and asked if this ticket was BWC, the agent said YES. I was about to cancel and get voucher and REBOOK as the fare/class of service/EVERYTHING is sheaper than two months ago when I booked but I tought the better of it as based on your feedback I was unsure I would get a voucher.
Let me know if this all makes sense. Tried to convey via above and you can see all of the history here of the back and forth.
Thanks!
I booked the ticket all at the same time online via book and upgrade. I selected all of the flights I wanted and they were available with Avios upgrade. I selected break my journey and chose my stopovers.
All flights were off peak. I selected World Traveler Plus for DEN-LHR-GLA leg, Club Europe for GLA-LCY leg and World Traveler Plus for LHR-DEN
I just REDID this on BA site (different dates as mine are not avaialble anymore). But was doing to see the condition of carriage.
Here they are:Denver International (CO) to Heathrow (London)
(This is an off-peak flight)
Changes to your upgrades are subject to the rules of your base commercial fare. See Terms and Conditions below.
Where the base commercial fare rules permit a change the following rules also apply (THERE ARE NO NOTES ON THE BOOKING PAGE OF THE BASE COMMERCIAL FARE RULES, only the BELOW). BA is saying that MY BASE FARE in booking for OUTBOUND does not allow for change.
- Time/date changes to these upgraded flights are permitted up to 24 hours before the first flight in your booking, subject to availability, for a service fee. A change fee may also apply depending on the conditions of the original flight that you upgraded.
- You may need to pay an additional cash amount if the cost of your new flight, in the cabin from which you are upgrading, is greater than your original flight.
- When you change between a peak to an off-peak date, or vice versa, the difference will be calculated and if the original ticket cost more Avios than the new ticket, you will be refunded the difference in Avios. If the original ticket costs less Avios than the new ticket, you will be required to pay additional Avios.
Here are my revised plans - Sept 25 DEN-LHR-GLA arrive on Sep 26. GLA-LCY Sept 30. LHR-DEN Oct 3.
My intent has always been to fly.
My intent, and I shared with everyone on phone with BA, was to just change my OUTBOUND DEN-LHR-GLA.
Reading above when I booked the flight (again do not have a screen shot/record of the T&Cs for my exact itenerary, IT CLEARLY STATES that TIME/DATE changes are permitted, subject to avaialbity for change fee/delta cost.
On the FIRST call with BA, the agent talked about DOWNGRADING the outbound to change the date and I said SURE, then she said I could not change outbound. This is what started this wonderful journey.... This is when I created this thread and asked what I could do. Someone recommended changing the RETURN to be before 9/30..
My flights now are BACK to the original plans above with World Traveller Plus on both international legs.
Here is what i want to do, and have been wanting to do ALL along, is change my ourbound from Sept 22 to Sept 25.
BA is saying that is not possible based on the terms of my fare.
I can change the return but not the outbound. No changes permitted on outbound. This is my new/now real question, WHY can I not change outbound?
Via BAs booking process of book and upgrade, where do I find the base commercial fare rules per leg? Based on me redoing it today the exact way I did it back in April, there is NO langague on booking/purchase page outside of above, so how as a consumer do I know that MY OUTBOUND cannot be changed and my RETURN can? Where is the documentation on this at time of booking or on my ticket/record locator?
The ticket booking code is the same both way "N" per agent, but upgraded to Plus class.
The reason I changed the return was to get it into the BWC time period, and I told all agents that is what I was doing.
Even 2 days ago when I called and asked if this ticket was BWC, the agent said YES. I was about to cancel and get voucher and REBOOK as the fare/class of service/EVERYTHING is sheaper than two months ago when I booked but I tought the better of it as based on your feedback I was unsure I would get a voucher.
Let me know if this all makes sense. Tried to convey via above and you can see all of the history here of the back and forth.
Thanks!
Jun 26, 2022, 11:05 am
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 172
Here is the exact langauge on ANY "Book and Upgrade" flight that I can find from DEN-LHR (again I beleive this is the SAME for any similar booking you can find). I beleive these are the same NO matter which dates I do for the flights (tried a few and got EXACT same language/T&Cs for each dummy booking). There is no booking code, no SPECIFIC statement around the T&Cs of my exact flight. After all the below is reviewed on this page, you can CLICK to accept "I agree to the terms and conditions" and hit continue, asks for passenger details then continue, then payment with nothing else.
So my question is the following:
How can I as a consumer KNOW that when I made my booking originally, the OUTBOUND is NON Changeable whereas the RETURN is? If the documentation below GOVERNS all of the flights that are "book and upgrade", should the flight CONDITONS OF CARRIAGE be consistant for both OUTBOUND and INBOUND? As a consumer, without the ability to see the RULES PER DIRECTION on changes for a "book and upgrade", I end up starting this post to UNDERSTAND the minutia details of British Airways CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE.
If someone comes back and says, per the booking T&Cs below, you cannot DOWNGRADE a "book and upgrade", this is not accurate either AS I HAVE ALREADY done this by changing my RUTURN from Oct 3 to Sept 29/30 previously. BA was able to change my return EVEN when no World Traveler Plus available. The ISSUE and remains the ONLY issue thru this entire post is I CANNOT change my outbound from Sept 21 to Sept 25. I can do ANYTHING else but this ONE thing that I have wanted to do the entire time.
I have NO documentation/notification that the outbound could not be changed thru the booking process and the T&Cs the way I read them (again dummy booking posted below with T&Cs that I believe are consistant with the flights I booked). The ONLY way I found out that the outbound could not be changed was calling into BA and the first agent saying my outbound could not be changed, BUT you can change your return. This started this journey to change return to be before 30/9 and meet the BWC window but people on this thread have coached me that that would not work. So now I am back to SQUARE ONE where I want to change my OUTBOUND and I am told I cannot.
Thank you all again for all your help, but I am still back to my original post around Condition of Carriage and why I cannot change my outbound. Any help would be appreciated.
Here is a screen capture directly from BA.com site for a BOOK AND UPGRADE flight.
When you expand the Terms and Conditions (You have to do this as not shown), you get all this associated with changes (Highlighting the word change).
Last edited by kimbray; Jun 26, 2022 at 11:19 am