Heathrow cutting capacity
Jun 5, 2022, 6:04 am
#16
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
Great post 13901. Appears HAL shouldn't have treated their staff so poorly, they now need to "pay the cost" so to be speak of offering greater incentives to work for them in a much more competitive labour market.
Still, I'm sure their management is compensated well ensuring they can "attract top talent" at the exec level so I'm surprised they cant seem to manage this!
Agree airlines have bought this on themselves by focusing on investors rather than customers and staff over recent years. WW and AC have been shown to be poor stewards of the airline given the challenges SD has inherited.
One thing I cant work out is the UK Government - why didnt they streamline things like background checks prior to removing travel restrictions? They knew what position they were in so this at least could have mitigated the issues somewhat. (and why didnt the airports/airlines shout about this when it was obvious the Gov wasnt preparing itself?)
One common theme here is management and leadership has been found woefully inadequate across the industry. Its not hard to manage things when economies are booming, actually having to make difficult decisions and get them right most of the time is what they are paid for and they dont appear to have this skillset.
Still, I'm sure their management is compensated well ensuring they can "attract top talent" at the exec level so I'm surprised they cant seem to manage this!
Agree airlines have bought this on themselves by focusing on investors rather than customers and staff over recent years. WW and AC have been shown to be poor stewards of the airline given the challenges SD has inherited.
One thing I cant work out is the UK Government - why didnt they streamline things like background checks prior to removing travel restrictions? They knew what position they were in so this at least could have mitigated the issues somewhat. (and why didnt the airports/airlines shout about this when it was obvious the Gov wasnt preparing itself?)
One common theme here is management and leadership has been found woefully inadequate across the industry. Its not hard to manage things when economies are booming, actually having to make difficult decisions and get them right most of the time is what they are paid for and they dont appear to have this skillset.
As to why HMG hasn’t done more to streamline the vetting… it has to be said that a lot of the work is outsourced to the airports/airlines. The CRC piece is, I believe, either Government-owned/managed and that works OKish. Maybe they could extend the validity of a CRC to 2-3 months rather than the current 4-6 weeks, but beyond that I don’t know what they could do. It’s HAL that is the bottleneck; GAL wasn’t as bad for instance, back in the day.
Another thing, but this is WAY too smart, would be to get rid of the obligation of going through security again when transferring in from Europe or another secure origin. But it’ll never ever happen.
Jun 5, 2022, 6:23 am
#17
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: A3*G,BA Silver
Posts: 2,012
On Facebook people are having a proper laugh with the customer service job being adversited for 20k per year. Some of them are wondering if it is an apprenticeship and some others are 'convinced' that the job advert is part time for such a low salary...
Jun 5, 2022, 6:41 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sussex
Programs: BA; IHG; LHW; Hilton
Posts: 788
The largest underlying reason for this is that they laid off too many employees,
Many of those employees will have found other jobs and might well be happier without the downsides of working in an airport, especially the unsociable hours. Many of them probably have no intention of going back to an industry that dropped them whilst government support was available; something that is no doubt weighing on minds of potential new recruits as well. And yes, some will have left the country.
Once again, their boasts of 'we are ready, drop the restrictions' ring hollow. What a mess.
Many of those employees will have found other jobs and might well be happier without the downsides of working in an airport, especially the unsociable hours. Many of them probably have no intention of going back to an industry that dropped them whilst government support was available; something that is no doubt weighing on minds of potential new recruits as well. And yes, some will have left the country.
Once again, their boasts of 'we are ready, drop the restrictions' ring hollow. What a mess.
Jun 5, 2022, 11:11 am
#20
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL (for now) and Lifetime Gold, Marriott fan thanks to Bonvoy Moments
Posts: 5,115
Jun 5, 2022, 12:43 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kendal, Cumbria and Luzon
Programs: BA Silver, PR Elite, Avis Preferred Plus, PC Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 1,128
Am I the only person thinking that effectively QR owned IAG will be lapping this mess up (likewise Eitihad and Emirates)?
They have access to crew from SE Asia at relatively much lower remuneration - all desperate to earn again.
----- Then they could possibly afford to pay/subsidise enhanced salaries at T4 whilst T5 squirms!
And Shapps - next move with your pawn please
They have access to crew from SE Asia at relatively much lower remuneration - all desperate to earn again.
----- Then they could possibly afford to pay/subsidise enhanced salaries at T4 whilst T5 squirms!
And Shapps - next move with your pawn please
Jun 5, 2022, 12:44 pm
#23
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,976
Am I the only person thinking that effectively QR owned IAG will be lapping this mess up (likewise Eitihad and Emirates)?
They have access to crew from SE Asia at relatively much lower remuneration - all desperate to earn again.
----- Then they could possibly afford to pay/subsidise enhanced salaries at T4 whilst T5 squirms!
And Shapps - next move with your pawn please
They have access to crew from SE Asia at relatively much lower remuneration - all desperate to earn again.
----- Then they could possibly afford to pay/subsidise enhanced salaries at T4 whilst T5 squirms!
And Shapps - next move with your pawn please
Jun 5, 2022, 1:00 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold / Hilton Diamond / IHG Diamond Ambassador / Marriot Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,535
Brexit is a massive cause of the debacle but not the only one.
EU nationals left in droves after the referendum result alone. I am in education and we lost 7 teachers 3 Irish and 4 Spanish nationals over night. Their pay was slashed in value following the £s fall. Within 2 months everyone of the 12 staff who cleaned and who came from Poland were gone. We have never been able to replace them
full and every day get people from these isles asking about work. Interviews are set up but once this is reported back to the DWP they walk away. Locals will not work in manual Labour
EU nationals left in droves after the referendum result alone. I am in education and we lost 7 teachers 3 Irish and 4 Spanish nationals over night. Their pay was slashed in value following the £s fall. Within 2 months everyone of the 12 staff who cleaned and who came from Poland were gone. We have never been able to replace them
full and every day get people from these isles asking about work. Interviews are set up but once this is reported back to the DWP they walk away. Locals will not work in manual Labour
Jun 5, 2022, 1:50 pm
#25
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kendal, Cumbria and Luzon
Programs: BA Silver, PR Elite, Avis Preferred Plus, PC Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 1,128
"even if true, how does that help HAL with their staffing issues and the need to cut capacity as noted by the OP?"
====== It doesn't - but as alluded IAG can break the minimum wage deadlock by paying at T4 whilst operating crew at a fraction of the cost of T5.
"And Shapps - next move with your pawn please"
And the next post 24 piles on the agony succinctly!
What A Mess
====== It doesn't - but as alluded IAG can break the minimum wage deadlock by paying at T4 whilst operating crew at a fraction of the cost of T5.
"And Shapps - next move with your pawn please"
And the next post 24 piles on the agony succinctly!
What A Mess
Last edited by Modo; Jun 5, 2022 at 1:58 pm
Jun 5, 2022, 2:01 pm
#26
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
"even if true, how does that help HAL with their staffing issues and the need to cut capacity as noted by the OP?"
====== It doesn't - but as alluded IAG can break the minimum wage deadlock by paying at T4 whilst operating crew at a fraction of the cost of T5.
"And Shapps - next move with your pawn please"
And the next post 24 piles on the agony succinctly!
What A Mess
====== It doesn't - but as alluded IAG can break the minimum wage deadlock by paying at T4 whilst operating crew at a fraction of the cost of T5.
"And Shapps - next move with your pawn please"
And the next post 24 piles on the agony succinctly!
What A Mess
Jun 5, 2022, 2:19 pm
#27
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA Executive Club, Flying Blue
Posts: 215
https://archive.ph/gUDeT - Article here without paywall
Jul 27, 2022, 12:23 am
#28
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, Amex Cent, SPG Gold, IC Plat Amb, Hilton Diam(given it though I'd never stayed in a Hilton)
Posts: 333
MAy I ask for some collective wisdom, please? Do we think BA have now more or less confirmed the flights they are going to cancel in response to capacity restrictions, or is it changing daily? I ask as I am due to fly LHR-FRA 4th Aug, returning 7th Aug and I see some flights have been cancelled but mine are still operating. Do you think it is therefore likely they will continue to operate or is it simply impossible to predict?
Jul 27, 2022, 12:32 am
#29
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London
Posts: 489
MAy I ask for some collective wisdom, please? Do we think BA have now more or less confirmed the flights they are going to cancel in response to capacity restrictions, or is it changing daily? I ask as I am due to fly LHR-FRA 4th Aug, returning 7th Aug and I see some flights have been cancelled but mine are still operating. Do you think it is therefore likely they will continue to operate or is it simply impossible to predict?