What Is The Matter With This Once Proud Airline??
Mar 15, 2022, 8:36 am
#61
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
Sure lots here would say it's more akin to a submarine with the captain shouting "Dive, dive, dive!"
Some planning issues were in part down to the Government chopping and changing. OK, so other airlines may have fared better than BA, so it's not all down to that, but at the end of the day, taking staff on and then 3 weeks later Lockdown IV or whatever. Do you keep paying them to sit idle at home for who knows how long, or just manage with what you have? "Everyone will be so grateful to be working that they'll cover any slack" seems to be a general attitude as well. Sometimes it helps preserve your job and help the company, other times it will result in future liberties being taken.
Some companies such as Swissport are the ground handlers for various airlines. If a limited number of flights are operating, then the money they recieve for the workload isn't enough to cover costs of, for example an extra 500 staff that would have ordinarily been employed.
Things may improve now with restrictions dropping and a clearer picture, but there's always the risk of further outbreaks, not just here, or the Ukraine situation that could have knock on effects.
Some planning issues were in part down to the Government chopping and changing. OK, so other airlines may have fared better than BA, so it's not all down to that, but at the end of the day, taking staff on and then 3 weeks later Lockdown IV or whatever. Do you keep paying them to sit idle at home for who knows how long, or just manage with what you have? "Everyone will be so grateful to be working that they'll cover any slack" seems to be a general attitude as well. Sometimes it helps preserve your job and help the company, other times it will result in future liberties being taken.
Some companies such as Swissport are the ground handlers for various airlines. If a limited number of flights are operating, then the money they recieve for the workload isn't enough to cover costs of, for example an extra 500 staff that would have ordinarily been employed.
Things may improve now with restrictions dropping and a clearer picture, but there's always the risk of further outbreaks, not just here, or the Ukraine situation that could have knock on effects.
Looking ahead, I also have a feeling that BA are deluding themselves that the "brand" and "staff travel" alone are enough to attract and retain talent. Plus the other big chestnut that is recruiting from Europe. It's not getting as tight as in tech, but for some roles it'll be hard for BA to fill in the roles unless they wake up and smell the coffee...
Mar 15, 2022, 8:37 am
#62
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Around somewhere
Programs: Gold, Some red card and some hotel cards.
Posts: 709
It’s basically a digital signboard at the head of stand that shows us whether to steer left/right to remain on the stand centreline and counts down the distance so we can stop the aircraft in the right position when we park. The ground teams turn it on and have to select the type of aircraft before the aircraft can turn onto the stand. The system uses a laser to work out the aircraft orientation and distance to generate the commands.
And yes, I’m sick of apologising too. Once or twice is fine but when it’s every time (or multiple times) you go to work, it gets tiresome. The worst part about it is we can rarely give you a rough time for the resource to arrive. The same applies to the buses. HAL do a lot of marshalling to clear the taxiways but I believe they charge BA for the privilege… Unfortunately it doesn’t solve the disembarkation delays!
What we must remember is that the globe has gone through a lot of turmoil in the last few years and aviation in particular has been badly affected. BA are desperately trying to recruit but quite often there are bottlenecks in training capacity or even security checks and ID issues which fall outside the company. BA has historically relied on overtime to cover gaps. The take up has almost been seen as part of the contract in days gone by (even though it’s never contractual). Now they are so short and/or people just aren’t picking it up the same as before (COVID reset etc). The resourcing issue is a priority for the company but it may get worse before it gets better. This summer will be ‘interesting’.
(I fly the A320, views are my own etc)
And yes, I’m sick of apologising too. Once or twice is fine but when it’s every time (or multiple times) you go to work, it gets tiresome. The worst part about it is we can rarely give you a rough time for the resource to arrive. The same applies to the buses. HAL do a lot of marshalling to clear the taxiways but I believe they charge BA for the privilege… Unfortunately it doesn’t solve the disembarkation delays!
What we must remember is that the globe has gone through a lot of turmoil in the last few years and aviation in particular has been badly affected. BA are desperately trying to recruit but quite often there are bottlenecks in training capacity or even security checks and ID issues which fall outside the company. BA has historically relied on overtime to cover gaps. The take up has almost been seen as part of the contract in days gone by (even though it’s never contractual). Now they are so short and/or people just aren’t picking it up the same as before (COVID reset etc). The resourcing issue is a priority for the company but it may get worse before it gets better. This summer will be ‘interesting’.
(I fly the A320, views are my own etc)
Mar 15, 2022, 9:30 am
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
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Other airlines (see Iberia for instance, and I think also Lufthansa) had the chance to "offload" their staff on the government's purse. It's way above my paygrade to decide whether that's right or wrong, but that could've helped. There's also a point to make about future expectations, i.e. how long did IAG/BA think the market would take to recover, plus of course the noises coming from Shapps and co.
Looking ahead, I also have a feeling that BA are deluding themselves that the "brand" and "staff travel" alone are enough to attract and retain talent. Plus the other big chestnut that is recruiting from Europe. It's not getting as tight as in tech, but for some roles it'll be hard for BA to fill in the roles unless they wake up and smell the coffee...
Looking ahead, I also have a feeling that BA are deluding themselves that the "brand" and "staff travel" alone are enough to attract and retain talent. Plus the other big chestnut that is recruiting from Europe. It's not getting as tight as in tech, but for some roles it'll be hard for BA to fill in the roles unless they wake up and smell the coffee...
There were also government subsidised furlough programs in the UK. So BA also had the option to "offload" staff to the government purse. Not that I am in to the exact details of each country's options, but BA had options as well.
Mar 15, 2022, 9:45 am
#64
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Marriott Platinum. Aspiring flyer with both feet on the ground.
Posts: 318
Another bus waiting story today. Just over half an hour wait on the plane after stairs were attached and door was opened. Then everybody was crammed into one bus - CE and ET - for as much as humanly possible. The rest had to wait for another bus, which was not there by the time the first one pulled out.
Embarrassingly horrible.
Embarrassingly horrible.
Mar 15, 2022, 9:53 am
#65
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: BAEC Silver, IHG Diamond
Posts: 7,770
Why have so many flights got buses anyway? May have had one flight since Nov that didn't involve a bus gate, yet there are aircraft just sitting, possibly idle, at every gate. The other day, 3 or 4 flights had buses queuing up at at A gates.
Mar 15, 2022, 10:03 am
#66
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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Hi
With all the gates full then there will need to be busses. I'm sure that the aircraft at the gates are not idle for the sake of it but probably there is a complex planning process. With the old lgw flights now at Heathrow and Qatar and aa using t5 also there will not be enough gates .
I personally don't like bussing to the aircraft but if on time don't mind too much leaving the aircraft
Regards
Tbs
Mar 15, 2022, 11:04 am
#67
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
I think it was more a kind of a "participation" rather than a 100% offload. Now, it doesn't detract from the fact that BA seized the chance to get rid of some of the older contracts (Worldwide to an extent, but more so the LGW pre-2011 contracts, or some above-the-wing roles or many "older" banded staff) and kind of shot itself in the foot.
Mar 15, 2022, 12:16 pm
#68
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: JAX
Programs: Ex-BA/AA/CP/LY staff, BA Executive Club Blue, IHG Diamond, Marriott Silver, Chick-fil-A Red
Posts: 3,588
I do love BA, but they do keep throwing out the baby with the bathwater, wasting talent and knowledge that took years to accumulate. Ugh!
Mar 16, 2022, 12:38 am
#69
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
And are still doing so. My father was just made redundant after 44 years with Im/IT/IAG GBS and his specialist knowledge went with him. No-one else did his rôle, knew his legacy IT systems, etc., but in the GBS re-org, forced to reapply for his position, manglement decided he didn't show enough *vision* for the 'new' rôle to qualify.
I do love BA, but they do keep throwing out the baby with the bathwater, wasting talent and knowledge that took years to accumulate. Ugh!
I do love BA, but they do keep throwing out the baby with the bathwater, wasting talent and knowledge that took years to accumulate. Ugh!
Mar 16, 2022, 12:45 am
#70
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: BHD
Programs: BA Executive Club Silver
Posts: 575
And are still doing so. My father was just made redundant after 44 years with Im/IT/IAG GBS and his specialist knowledge went with him. No-one else did his rôle, knew his legacy IT systems, etc., but in the GBS re-org, forced to reapply for his position, manglement decided he didn't show enough *vision* for the 'new' rôle to qualify.
I do love BA, but they do keep throwing out the baby with the bathwater, wasting talent and knowledge that took years to accumulate. Ugh!
I do love BA, but they do keep throwing out the baby with the bathwater, wasting talent and knowledge that took years to accumulate. Ugh!
Mar 16, 2022, 12:47 am
#71
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: BHD
Programs: BA Executive Club Silver
Posts: 575
And are still doing so. My father was just made redundant after 44 years with Im/IT/IAG GBS and his specialist knowledge went with him. No-one else did his rôle, knew his legacy IT systems, etc., but in the GBS re-org, forced to reapply for his position, manglement decided he didn't show enough *vision* for the 'new' rôle to qualify.
I do love BA, but they do keep throwing out the baby with the bathwater, wasting talent and knowledge that took years to accumulate. Ugh!
I do love BA, but they do keep throwing out the baby with the bathwater, wasting talent and knowledge that took years to accumulate. Ugh!
Mar 16, 2022, 1:00 am
#72
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: BMA
Programs: SAS Eurobonus Gold Card
Posts: 324
And yet until covid they made great profits with those fares.
BA set the fares. If they can’t provide even the most basic of service such as being able to park and unload the plane in a reasonable time then they should just get out the game or raise the fares to the level that enable them to be able to do so.
Low cost carriers seem to be able to charge low fares and still get you on and off a plane without the crew needing to apologise 10 times for things gone wrong.
BA set the fares. If they can’t provide even the most basic of service such as being able to park and unload the plane in a reasonable time then they should just get out the game or raise the fares to the level that enable them to be able to do so.
Low cost carriers seem to be able to charge low fares and still get you on and off a plane without the crew needing to apologise 10 times for things gone wrong.
Mar 16, 2022, 1:01 am
#73
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 460
JAXBA that’s sad but not, unfortunately, shocking. IAG aren’t the only corporation who see experience as expensive and unnecessary. I bet the managers assessing his value to the organisation are about half his age and think they know it all
I hope he got a decent severance package.
We all see ongoing IT issues with BA and there will be more. It’s not possible to outsource experience and detailed legacy systems knowledge but somebody will be convinced they are saving money this way. It will only cost more in the long run.
I hope he got a decent severance package.
We all see ongoing IT issues with BA and there will be more. It’s not possible to outsource experience and detailed legacy systems knowledge but somebody will be convinced they are saving money this way. It will only cost more in the long run.
Mar 16, 2022, 12:35 pm
#74
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold / Hilton Diamond / IHG Diamond Ambassador / Marriot Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,534
Hi
With all the gates full then there will need to be busses. I'm sure that the aircraft at the gates are not idle for the sake of it but probably there is a complex planning process. With the old lgw flights now at Heathrow and Qatar and aa using t5 also there will not be enough gates .
I personally don't like bussing to the aircraft but if on time don't mind too much leaving the aircraft
Regards
Tbs
With all the gates full then there will need to be busses. I'm sure that the aircraft at the gates are not idle for the sake of it but probably there is a complex planning process. With the old lgw flights now at Heathrow and Qatar and aa using t5 also there will not be enough gates .
I personally don't like bussing to the aircraft but if on time don't mind too much leaving the aircraft
Regards
Tbs
Still doesn't explain short haul arriving in B/C and so I suspect that may of the aircraft are indeed idle. It may be easier to park and bus that tow to and from the base. Could be staff shortages and those automated 1 man push back tractors probably don't do base tows.
Mar 22, 2022, 5:38 am
#75
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Effectively grounded
Programs: BA GGL for a little while longer
Posts: 844
We are down in London this weekend visiting family. There are a couple of realistic choices for us (starting from Lancashire) - fly from/to MAN or take the train.
We have always been enthusiastic flyers, and with access to the CCR on the way back, it would normally be a no-brainer. But the extensive reports of "hell on earth" at MAN and general chaos at LHR T5 (acknowledging that departures are much less affected), put us right off. With a bit of jiggery-pokery the train fare was slightly cheaper than flying. So now we have train tickets and BA has no sale.
Of course, our spend is not even a rounding error to BA but I do wonder how many people are making similar choices...
We have always been enthusiastic flyers, and with access to the CCR on the way back, it would normally be a no-brainer. But the extensive reports of "hell on earth" at MAN and general chaos at LHR T5 (acknowledging that departures are much less affected), put us right off. With a bit of jiggery-pokery the train fare was slightly cheaper than flying. So now we have train tickets and BA has no sale.
Of course, our spend is not even a rounding error to BA but I do wonder how many people are making similar choices...
London-bound, the train was more or less equal to plane for comfort (though very busy, barely a free seat), equal for catering, equal on price... in fact, it was so easy we are doing it again in a few weeks
Lancashire-bound, we did miss the CCR (no railway lounge privileges at all on a Standard class Advance ticket !), but again train == plane on comfort, catering and price...
Not a vast difference in time either given we would have had to get to/from MAN, through Security etc.
So our pattern going forward will probably be Lancs->London by train, LHR-MAN by plane, provided that the pricing is broadly comparable and for as long as we retain GGL (just under a year to go...)
I have to say, I had forgotten how nice it is to pull into Euston and walk straight out into the sunshine with our bags
Maybe we will do Amsterdam by Eurostar at some point...