USA_flyer

I believe 'direct' can involve a stop.

dcmike

Czechia just closed their airspace as well.

greg5

And plane changes. I was once on an UA flight from HNL-AKL that originated in FRA, and had already stopped at IAD and LAX. I also had a direct flight from ZRH to DEN with a stop and plane change at IAD. The flight numbers remained the same.

Cymro

For anyone picking up this thread, this is not a general "keep everything out of the air" scenario, but rather, closing airspace to Russian airlines.

zkzkz

It's interesting. Obviously destinations in Europe are important. But overflights really aren't. EU closing airspace is basically equivalent to the EU just refusing landing flights. Which is a pretty big hit but it's a pain for European citizens as well and it'll be hard to maintain long-term.

Russia can deny overflights though and that's a huge deal for the rest of the world. Even if you don't plan to land in Russia there are a lot of routes where it's worth paying Russia fairly large fees just for overflight rights. Flying around Russia adds a lot of time and expense to routes that don't ever land there. And Russia can do that indefinitely without hurting its own citizens aside from losing the income stream from airlines.

TheJayHatch

Isnt it a 'closing Russian airspace to BA/British airlines' thread? Regardless, it is probably interesting to most BA flyers as would not be easily discoverable otherwise. FT, and the BA pages in particular, are my first port of call in any flying matter...

Flaps Down

Quite a number of those aircraft seen avoiding Russian airspace to the east of Ukraine, which is also closed, are internal Russian flights. MOW-AER loses considerable time going via Kazak airspace.

psusaver

Yes, I had been on a flight like that between DEL-NRT, that had some disembarkation only in BKK. Also, I think it was a medical crew that got down, not regular commercial pax.

sigma421

Yup I did this on (ironically) Aeroflot from Rome to Tokyo via Moscow. The flight was marketed as SU263 throughout but the first leg was an A321 and the final one a 777. I think it did mean that they held the 777 because the 321 arrived late though.

Greenpen

I notice that todya’s flights from Pakistan are looping around both Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Have they followed the Russian airspace ban? Flights are looping to avoid them and flying in Kazakh air.

ANstar

I noticed that too. Not sure whats going on....

Sigwx

The routing also has to consider oxygen and engine failure driftdown requirements with regards to the terrain. On top of that there are certain areas we do not flyover for other reasons and hence the routing you see. No Russian FIRs are entered.

Greenpen

I watch aircraft but am a long way from being any sort of expert! What are oxygen and engine failure downdrift requirements?

Globaliser

If there is a depressurisation, then crew and passengers have to go on to supplemental oxygen until the aircraft can descend to a safe altitude at which supplemental oxygen is no longer required, but there can only be a limited supply on board.

If there is an engine failure, the aircraft may not be able to maintain its altitude and will have to descend because of the reduction in engine power.

If there is high terrain, then either kind of emergency would leave the aircraft in a dangerous position. The supplemental oxygen might run out if the aircraft cannot descend soon enough, or the aircraft may not be able to stay safely away from the terrain with the remaining operating engine(s). So route planning must take this into account.

One of the more high-profile planning exercises was undertaken by Qantas, when it was interested in using the L888 airway over the Tibetan plateau. Some randomly-found stuff here about it, including discussion about these requirements and about the need to plan escape routes off the airway in an emergency to allow the aircraft to descend as required:

• https://www.flightglobal.com/rough-o.../32910.article
• https://slideplayer.com/slide/6166367/
• https://ops.group/blog/l888-the-silk-road-airway/