hfly

You know, I drove through a major underpass near my home this afternoon, and cast in the walls is the date 1998, denoting when the underpass was finished. Now anyone who was actually alive at the time, and has lived here and has a discerning memory will remember that perhaps there was a digger onsite in 1998, but that the ribbon cutting with the Mayor was in 2001, but that it was not actually complete and fully open for traffic until 2002. The council lists it as having been completed in 1998, most people however would just shrug their shoulders as such details are lost in history.


I fully believe that the BA annual report says that. Yet, however you are welcome to go back and read threads here on FT documenting the fact that this was NOT actually the case. Again, I and many others here posted in detail dates far beyond 2003 flying the old business product, and NOT from Manchester (the last time I flew anything long haul from Manchester was in about 1989 and that was an L1011 IIRC.

BTW, here is just one of many statements put out by BA at different times, this one in late 2004, "Services to Kingston, Tampa, Orlando, Antigua, Grenada, St Lucia and Tobago were due to operate with aircraft that have been upgraded to the Dusk (Club World Flat bed, World Traveller Plus and World Traveller) product from 27 September 2004 on Kingston with the remainder from 19 November 2004. Due to operational reasons, this has been delayed until the end of February 2005. The aircraft will now be available with the new Dusk configuration from 1 March 2005." (FYI they didn't make the March 1, 2005 deadline either).

As for Delta you are correct, but not proving me wrong, and Delta announced Bizelite in 1999, by the end of 2000 it was fully implemented throughout their entire l/h fleet. Yes they then did roll out flat beds in 2008, and with the exception of some Northwest aircraft that were never converted (but had their own flat and nearly flat beds, completed the entire fleet in less than 18 months again. Then in 2016 they launched the latest product(s) which were all delivered within 2 years or so. So actually in roughly the same span DL rolled out totally new concepts 3 times across a larger fleet, and each time did it in far less time than BA.

DYKWIA

I've just checked my flight diary, and I did BA1503 MAN-JFK and the BA1502 return 7 times in 2007. That was on the last B767 to be reconfigured with the flat bed seats. I was upgraded twice (once a double upgrade from Y) so I actually sat in the seat.

I'd be very surprised if there were any BA planes flying in late 2007 with the old CW.

hfly

Other than a mention of one MAN based plane, I really do not know where MAN came into this. According to BA itself in late 2014, at a minimum Kingston, Tampa, Orlando, Antigua, Grenada, St Lucia and Tobago would NOT be operating with Dusked aircraft, and that according to their statement at the time was to have changed to March 2005 ( a deadline that they also missed). Now I have stated very clearly that at least a year, and in fact almost two years later I personally flew on BA 777's that DID NOT HAVE NCW seats, I cannot speak to "Late 2007" but I can certainly speak to the first quarter of 2007. So what was written in "Black & White" in the 2002/2003 annual report was and is simply untrue.

DYKWIA

That's just nonsense.

ETA - assuming you meant 2004 rather than 2014, that's still not 2007.

DYKWIA

Thinking back... when I first joined FT in 2004, BA were subbing some aircraft from another airline. ISTR a few complaints from people on the MCO/TPA routes saying they got cradle seats rather than the advertised NCW.

Globaliser

So far as LGW was concerned, in the post that started ...and the last 777 is dusked: flat beds now on all LGW routes (thread started on 2 March 2005):In the post that started Who is taking a farewell trip in OCW? (thread started on 29 April 2005):And in the original set of posts that started The all new and updated Ultimate BRITISH AIRWAYS Guide (thread started on 25 July 2006):

1Aturnleft

I agree. The 767's were the last aircraft to be fitted with first generation Club World flat bed (the one with the fan divider) in 2005. By that point everything else in the long haul fleet had this Club World flat bed - including Gatwick. The next generation flat bad came (New Club World featuring Club Kitchen) came about in early 2008 and I was certainly flying in it out of Gatwick to the Caribbean in 777's in 2009 in 3 and 4 class formats. The 767's never received this particular seat however and retained the first generation Club World flat bed until they were retrofitted for European service or were retired from service. These would have been used primarily to secondary East Coast US destinations, Freetown, Nassau, Grand Cayman and Providenciales, Moscow, Tel Aviv and some Dubai services. I flew back from Dubai in 2011 on a 767 and they had the fan divider flat.bed in Club World then. The forerunner to Club World flat bed was cradle seat. These were all long gone from the mainline Heathrow/Gatwick fleet (except the 767). Certainly by 2014 everything was flat in Club World so I really don't know where you're pulling that date from. It's factually incorrect information.

DYKWIA

There's also this post from 2004 :-

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/2916547-post12.html

Prospero

Here is a copy of the 2002/03 annual report. See p6.

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...2003_final.pdf

I happily stand corrected on the completion date of the LGW Dusk refits.

hfly

Yes I meant 2004 not 2014.

And yes, what I wrote in 2004 about ANU was accurate, believe it or not I have gotten to the Caribbean in Club with BA many times not once, so that has little to do with the fact that in early 2017 I flew there and back with OCW. So after all this, hullabaloo, we have established essentially what I wrote, BA took forever in their roll out of the product, it was surpassed by other airlines by the time they finished roll out, and they did not complete their roll out in 2 years and in fact only completed it in 6 or 7 years depending who one wants to believe, making it the slowest roll out ever (and I am not even counting the 767's)

Prospero

Looking at the dusk roll out in terms of the tortoise racing the hare, I suppose you could argue it went like the hare. A rapid roll out the LHR fleet, then a long pause before completing the LGW/MAN fleet. The word you used was glacial which is far from accurate.

Incidentally, reminiscing on the products available in 2004/5, which airline’s products did you prefer?

1Aturnleft

And here you go again.... being factually inaccurate.

DYKWIA

2008, no it was 2007, no it was 2014, no it was 2017

Considering the last B767 was done in 2006, I'd say none of those years are correct!

hfly

His I am doing this from a phone which is seemingly auto correcting what I write, I am referring to 2007 not 2017 obviously.

Globaliser

The posts that I have quoted above show that in early 2007, you cannot have flown in OCW (cradle seat) on any BA mainline aircraft (747, 767 or 777). You must be mistaken.