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Old Sep 10, 2020, 4:22 pm
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Last edit by: Globaliser
List of active A380s:
.
Code:
 Aircraft   Delivery     Hours
 G-XLEA     04.07.2013   29,259 at 06.04.2022
 G-XLEB     20.09.2013   28,913 at 29.07.2022
 G-XLEC     18.10.2013   29,592 at 20.09.2022
 G-XLED     17.01.2014   27,628 at 06.01.2022
 G-XLEE     06.03.2014   27,385 at 03.02.2021
 G-XLEF     15.05.2014   27,572 at 30.03.2022
 G-XLEG     11.09.2014   27,033 at 01.08.2022
 G-XLEH     16.10.2014   25,613 at 01.08.2022
 G-XLEI     13.02.2015   24,390 at 21.01.2022
 G-XLEJ     10.11.2015   21,521 at 31.10.2022
 G-XLEK     03.02.2016   19,363 at 20.03.2022
 G-XLEL     22.06.2016   19,284 at 17.06.2022
 .
 .
.
Major maintenance:
.
Code:
 Aircraft   Maint 1      Maint 2      Maint 3      Maint 4
 G-XLEA     21.06.2015   12.04.2017   17.12.2018   26.10.2021
 G-XLEB     24.09.2015   20.05.2017   04.03.2019   07.02.2022
 G-XLEC     17.10.2015   09.09.2017   06.05.2019   08.03.2022
 G-XLED     24.01.2016   08.11.2017   06.08.2019   23.12.2021
 .
 .
.
Code:
 G-XLEE     15.02.2016   16.12.2017   19.10.2019   14.04.2022
 G-XLEF     16.04.2016   25.02.2018   19.01.2020   04.02.2022
 G-XLEG     25.09.2016   09.04.2018   25.05.2020   13.05.2022
 G-XLEH     15.10.2016   16.09.2018   21.08.2020   11.09.2022
 G-XLEI     21.01.2017   21.10.2018   15.10.2020   28.10.2022
 G-XLEJ     28.09.2017   11.06.2019   16.07.2022
 G-XLEK     21.01.2018   22.11.2019   04.01.2022
 G-XLEL     28.04.2018   23.02.2020   31.03.2022
 .
 .
.
Notes:
  1. Maintenance dates are for the completion of each period of major maintenance work, lasting about 3, 5, 8 and 4 weeks respectively.
  2. As of 28 October 2022: -
    • G-XLEA is in service
    • G-XLEB is in service
    • G-XLEC is in service
    • G-XLED is in service
    • G-XLEE is in service
    • G-XLEF is in service
    • G-XLEG is in service
    • G-XLEH is in service
    • G-XLEI is in service
    • G-XLEJ is in service
    • G-XLEK is in service
    • G-XLEL is in service
  3. Airport codes:-
    • LHR = London Heathrow
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Stored A380s | maintenance movements

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Old Sep 14, 2020, 7:17 am
  #91  
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Originally Posted by niavaran
Buying the 380s clearly was a mistake in retrospect, but getting rid of them now takes moronic to new levels. They are 7 years old (or so), meaning they've lived ******a third at a minimum***** of their flying life. Even if BA got an amazing deal when buying them (which I don't think they did since they didn't buy that many, but...) to retire them now would mean a massive cost to underwrite. Virtually no one (Saudi princes aside) is going to be buying, which means they literally have to take on the hundreds of millions per plane they spent as a lost cause.

Demand will return eventually. To just retire 380s because there isn't demand right now is unbelievably near-sighted. Unfortunately, that's the way BA operates these days. Retiring the mid Club World 321s was moronic (no one will fly 320s to Cairo and Moscow when competitors offer flat beds...) but BA did it because right now the demand isn't there.

The Cruz/Walsh line of thinking has its limitations. And they will be encountered once this storm has passed.
I think retiring an aircraft like 380s is no longer about when demand comes back, its about what every airline who refused to buy more concluded. in an economic downturn the aircraft is extremely useless and only really worth it in a boom. Its about what are the take-aways from the pandemic? a strong focus on strengthening balance sheets and a revisitation of aircrafts that have no versatility; let's even park the size of the 380. There are 300ERs and 350-1000s that seat 440-450 passengers which is about the least dense 380 on the market. These aircrafts didn't stop flying because they have very strong cargo revenue capabilities and many of those cargo flights were cash positive; the 380 on the other hand has virtually no cargo capabilities and with its 4 engines the premium you would have to charge to make that flight profitable (assuming you carry cargo in the belly and on the passenger deck) will price you way out of the market.

so its about looking into the future and saying if something like this happens again, what position do i want to be in? because there is nothing worse than a grounded aircraft that still has a lease payment on its head. flying or not that rental must be paid.
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 7:55 am
  #92  
 
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Originally Posted by niavaran
Buying the 380s clearly was a mistake in retrospect, but getting rid of them now takes moronic to new levels. They are 7 years old (or so), meaning they've lived ******a third at a minimum***** of their flying life. Even if BA got an amazing deal when buying them (which I don't think they did since they didn't buy that many, but...) to retire them now would mean a massive cost to underwrite. Virtually no one (Saudi princes aside) is going to be buying, which means they literally have to take on the hundreds of millions per plane they spent as a lost cause.

Demand will return eventually. To just retire 380s because there isn't demand right now is unbelievably near-sighted. Unfortunately, that's the way BA operates these days. Retiring the mid Club World 321s was moronic (no one will fly 320s to Cairo and Moscow when competitors offer flat beds...) but BA did it because right now the demand isn't there.

The Cruz/Walsh line of thinking has its limitations. And they will be encountered once this storm has passed.
The overwhelming consensus is for a rebound to 2019 levels by 2024 - and, crucially, even longer for unit revenue (as per Willie in the last earnings call). This means that you either have some 380s sitting idle for 2, 3, 4 years (after which you basically need to rebuild them) or you have them flying suboptimally, either not too full or at not the best yield.

If confronted by all this, if I were BA I'd look at those 380s that are the closest to their D-check cycles (the birds have between 7 and 5 years of age, so I'd say that some of the newer ones are still due their first check) and offset those. It's far from ideal, but the reality is that you stand to lose money whether you keep them or dump 'em. And chances are that if you dump 'em you lose less money so...

And in the event of a super unlikely rebound you can still anticipate deliveries, go hunting for white tails (there are bound to be a fair few), dry-wet lease, ask your partners for more capacity or simply fly more the existing fleets. I very much doubt that "BA running out of planes" is going to be a problem in the next 2-3 years. Sadly.
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 8:59 am
  #93  
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Originally Posted by opus99
because there is nothing worse than a grounded aircraft that still has a lease payment on its head. flying or not that rental must be paid.
Presumably, a retired leased aircraft that nobody else wants to buy or operate will still have lease payments on its head that must be paid whether or not the aircraft is flying?
Originally Posted by 13901
If confronted by all this, if I were BA I'd look at those 380s that are the closest to their D-check cycles (the birds have between 7 and 5 years of age, so I'd say that some of the newer ones are still due their first check) and offset those.
This is one of the reasons that I put the heavy maintenance periods into the wikipost, as they're clearly identifiable on the A380 fleet.

So might this mean that it's the newer aircraft that are, paradoxically, most at risk?
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 9:07 am
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
Presumably, a retired leased aircraft that nobody else wants to buy or operate will still have lease payments on its head that must be paid whether or not the aircraft is flying?This is one of the reasons that I put the heavy maintenance periods into the wikipost, as they're clearly identifiable on the A380 fleet.

So might this mean that it's the newer aircraft that are, paradoxically, most at risk?
I meant that last part in the event that if another strong economic downturn were to happen and BA still had the 380s Of course
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 10:10 am
  #95  
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2651QO

eu slot waiver extended to March 27th 2021. Any 380 that’s on the schedule will probably be taken out
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 10:14 am
  #96  
 
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While sad, I think BA are doing the right thing (not that I claim to be an expert!) Shrinking the A380 feet at this time to the smallest viable feet and shedding those air-frames for which it makes sense (based on hours / cycles / MX / lease clauses / whatever.)

That positions them to still have an A380 fleet when flying them becomes viable again, or, if things go even more down the toilet, shedding them altogether. We aren't getting back to pre-Covid-19 flying until somewhere between 2022 and 2028 depending on which report you read, so I think this is an each way gamble by BA currently. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they killed the fleet entirely. But I hope not!

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Old Sep 14, 2020, 10:17 am
  #97  
 
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
This is one of the reasons that I put the heavy maintenance periods into the wikipost, as they're clearly identifiable on the A380 fleet.
Oooh, I missed that! great stuff! you've got to teach me where to find aircraft hours like you did there.

Originally Posted by Globaliser
So might this mean that it's the newer aircraft that are, paradoxically, most at risk?
hmm, that may be the case Your wikipost shows that all planes did 3 visits to Manila. Assuming they go there every 2 years for a C-check and then the third is a D (I'm making this up from limited memories, I used to work in Line and not as an Engineer) then it might mean that the most likely candidates from this point of view are LEJ, LEK and LEL. A way of checking it would be to see how long they've spent in Manila. If it's less than a month it should be a C-check, if it's more than a month it'd be a D.

However there's a gazillion other things that might tilt the balance in favour of the other, older frames (are the maintenance inputs already committed to/paid for for these 3 guys? or do they have some particular adaptations that aren't available for the older planes? are they owned, leased?)..
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 11:05 am
  #98  
 
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
Presumably, a retired leased aircraft that nobody else wants to buy or operate will still have lease payments on its head that must be paid whether or not the aircraft is flying?
I was chatting to a good mate today, who saw his brother works for a aircraft leasing company, and asked how busy he was (handles end of lease/returns) - "he is dead quiet, no one is returning/taking up leased aircraft, and some airlines (mentioned one, a long haul only operator) have stopped paying the lease payments on parked up aircraft, and just said "if you want them, come and get them"". The banks who ultimately own the aircraft, don't know what to do. What do they do with them, as they would be stuck with the aircraft, no one wants them.
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 11:33 am
  #99  
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Originally Posted by 13901
you've got to teach me where to find aircraft hours like you did there.

hmm, that may be the case Your wikipost shows that all planes did 3 visits to Manila. Assuming they go there every 2 years for a C-check and then the third is a D (I'm making this up from limited memories, I used to work in Line and not as an Engineer) then it might mean that the most likely candidates from this point of view are LEJ, LEK and LEL. A way of checking it would be to see how long they've spent in Manila. If it's less than a month it should be a C-check, if it's more than a month it'd be a D.
There's no magic in the hours figures! They're reported every year and listed on G-INFO.

The heavy maintenance dates are taken from the wikipost to A380 maintenance Singapore. The visits have been to SIN or MNL. I haven't put all of the dates in the wikipost to this thread, but putting them into a spreadsheet shows that the first visit for each aircraft lasted about 3 weeks, the second was about 5 weeks, and the third was about 8 weeks (although G-XLEH was in MNL for much longer this year because the job was delayed by Covid).
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Old Oct 10, 2020, 3:39 pm
  #100  
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This post - BA fleet developments: unconfirmed updates, speculation, and general discussion - is of a unconfirmed report that G-XLEG will position from LHR to CQM (Ciudad Real airport, Spain) next week for long-term storage, and that other 380s will go there too.
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Old Mar 30, 2021, 2:16 pm
  #101  
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With the movements to and from LHR this year, the beginnings of some speculation may be possible about which aircraft are more or less likely to return to service.

Sorted in order of their last movements in 2020, here is the fleet:

G-XLEF - MAD - last 2020 movement 11.11.2020 - at LHR 23.02.2021 - 09.03.2021
G-XLEG - MAD - last 2020 movement 12.11.2020 - at LHR 02.03.2021 - 09.03.2021
G-XLEI - MAD - last 2020 movement 13.11.2020 - at LHR 09.03.2021 - 16.03.2021
G-XLEA - TEV - last 2020 movement 20.11.2020
G-XLEB - TEV - last 2020 movement 20.11.2020
G-XLEL - MAD - last 2020 movement 21.11.2020 - at LHR 16.03.2021 - 23.03.2021
G-XLEK - MAD - last 2020 movement 01.12.2020 - at LHR 30.03.2021
G-XLEC - TEV - last 2020 movement 03.12.2020
G-XLED - DOH - last 2020 movement 16.12.2020
G-XLEJ - DOH - last 2020 movement 16.12.2020
G-XLEE - DOH - last 2020 movement 17.12.2020
G-XLEH - MAD - last 2020 movement 21.12.2020
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Old Mar 30, 2021, 2:37 pm
  #102  
 
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Spotted G-XLEK flying over South East London back into Heathrow this afternoon. Assuming this is just a routine bit of maintenance
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Old Apr 3, 2021, 11:10 am
  #103  
 
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What a pity
As a humble customer what a shame this is. The A 380 was a dream to fly in First by far the best experience BA has to offer, knocking* the 777 and 787 into a hat, and as for the ancient 747s don’t start me! If only customers had the final say in these matters
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Old Apr 3, 2021, 6:41 pm
  #104  
 
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Originally Posted by Aiofe Bear
As a humble customer what a shame this is. The A 380 was a dream to fly in First by far the best experience BA has to offer, knocking* the 777 and 787 into a hat, and as for the ancient 747s don’t start me! If only customers had the final say in these matters
They'll come back.

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Old Apr 4, 2021, 5:13 am
  #105  
 
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probably in the same way Concorde ‘came back’
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