BA Recall Staff from 26 Jun [the BA staff/unions/redundancies thread]
Aug 3, 2020, 7:58 am
#481
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 72
I actually think BA have done the best they can. They laid out the worst case scenario, and the recent results show that things are far worse than we ever thought.
The unions refusing to engage, the government criticising... It's had very little impact, and despite this the offer has improved. BA have offered individual consultation, offered support for individuals, while the unions have buried their heads in the sand. The government have criticised but not suggested any resolution, and have turned a blind eye to competitors undertaking the same actions.
What will be, will be, and it's probably too late to change things now.
The unions refusing to engage, the government criticising... It's had very little impact, and despite this the offer has improved. BA have offered individual consultation, offered support for individuals, while the unions have buried their heads in the sand. The government have criticised but not suggested any resolution, and have turned a blind eye to competitors undertaking the same actions.
What will be, will be, and it's probably too late to change things now.
Difficult as it is, forget FC and CC, for a minute. Do you think they have done their best for LGW staff? There are other staff groups too that may well disagree with your view but don’t have the voice that FC and CC have/had!?
It’s too late to change anything now...as you say, what will be will be. I can’t imagine the morale and mood of those that are lucky enough to be “chosen” to stay on - at reduced salary and different T&C’s.
I think BA have dealt with this very poorly and I don’t think the “remainers” will forget. Fast forward 3/4 years and the next wage negotiation! I fear BA will reap what they have sown!
Aug 3, 2020, 8:12 am
#482
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,668
The best they can?
Difficult as it is, forget FC and CC, for a minute. Do you think they have done their best for LGW staff? There are other staff groups too that may well disagree with your view but don’t have the voice that FC and CC have/had!?
It’s too late to change anything now...as you say, what will be will be. I can’t imagine the morale and mood of those that are lucky enough to be “chosen” to stay on - at reduced salary and different T&C’s.
I think BA have dealt with this very poorly and I don’t think the “remainers” will forget. Fast forward 3/4 years and the next wage negotiation! I fear BA will reap what they have sown!
Difficult as it is, forget FC and CC, for a minute. Do you think they have done their best for LGW staff? There are other staff groups too that may well disagree with your view but don’t have the voice that FC and CC have/had!?
It’s too late to change anything now...as you say, what will be will be. I can’t imagine the morale and mood of those that are lucky enough to be “chosen” to stay on - at reduced salary and different T&C’s.
I think BA have dealt with this very poorly and I don’t think the “remainers” will forget. Fast forward 3/4 years and the next wage negotiation! I fear BA will reap what they have sown!
This has to be viewed in context, this is not some periodic efficiency drive that all big companies go on from time-to-time to keep the City happy and drive the share price up, it really isn't this time
Aug 3, 2020, 10:19 am
#483
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 72
I have tried to point this out (probably over pointed out) that all these staff dealings need to be taken in the context with the sudden and continuing >80% drop in BA overall passenger numbers and more significantly, virtual elimination of the NA and Asian routes with all the high revenue income that comes from J/F traffic. A sudden disappearance to any business of 80% of income and 95% drop in their most profitable customers really is utterly devastating for a business.
This has to be viewed in context, this is not some periodic efficiency drive that all big companies go on from time-to-time to keep the City happy and drive the share price up, it really isn't this time
This has to be viewed in context, this is not some periodic efficiency drive that all big companies go on from time-to-time to keep the City happy and drive the share price up, it really isn't this time
So, I agree that wholesale change was required to deal with this unprecedented situation, I just feel(as do a whole bunch of others) that it could have been dealt with so differently. Of course there would have been substantial pain but maybe, just maybe, the remainers would still feel some pride for the job they do and the company they work for.
Aug 3, 2020, 12:33 pm
#484
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: north of heathrow
Posts: 1,109
The amount of talent, expertise and professionalism that has left today is heartbreaking. Also myself. I clicked the button with 3 hours to go.
Aug 3, 2020, 12:41 pm
#485
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 72
I wish you, and your many colleagues who are leaving, well and do try and remember that you have been part of once brilliant airline, with true professionals and a reputation that was the envy of the aviation world. You made BA great...WW and AC cannot say that and they can’t take that away from you guys!
Aug 3, 2020, 12:46 pm
#486
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,065
I have tried to point this out (probably over pointed out) that all these staff dealings need to be taken in the context with the sudden and continuing >80% drop in BA overall passenger numbers and more significantly, virtual elimination of the NA and Asian routes with all the high revenue income that comes from J/F traffic. A sudden disappearance to any business of 80% of income and 95% drop in their most profitable customers really is utterly devastating for a business.
This has to be viewed in context, this is not some periodic efficiency drive that all big companies go on from time-to-time to keep the City happy and drive the share price up, it really isn't this time
This has to be viewed in context, this is not some periodic efficiency drive that all big companies go on from time-to-time to keep the City happy and drive the share price up, it really isn't this time
BA staff are not stupid, no one was looking at this thinking that we would all remain as before. What irritates is the aggressive, unpleasant, bullying and underhand way things have been done.
One simple example from the pilots world. We were issued with s188 letters, we knew that this is a legal requirement should you need to make redundancies. A decent management or even one with any scruples could have, at that point, stated that should CR be required that the staff who were made tedundant woukd get a call back before any possible future pilot recruitment. However, they didn't do that, instead it was held over BALPA as something they could "buy" with further productivity improvements.
There has been much talk of opportunism from management in this crisis, this is a clear cut case. If nothing else it is exceptionally poor man management, it angered the pilots immensely. Even as we were balloting on a deal the opportunistic and grasping management were trying to change the deal; the result of the ballot had to be delayed as, essentially there was at that point no deal. They used this tactic throughout the negotiations - agree something only to slip it back in at the last-minute. They are fundamentally not men of their words.
Now you might say this is just business and it is sound tactics to run negotiations in this fashion. Tactically you may well be right but strategically this is very stupid as it just stores up resentment for the future.
If anyone here thinks BAs recovery will be smooth sailing on the IR front they are seriously underestimating the anger, which for the moment is being held in check by circumstances. BA had not had a pilot strike in their history, until the present Flight Ops leadership so seriosly misread the situation last summer. They are inept people managers.
I know most of you won't care so long as you get your tier points but a disgruntled and angry pilot workgroup was a probable factor on the loss of PI at Staines. Poor man management does affect flight safety.
In my time in BA this is the worst Leadership team and set of man managers I have experienced. They may be good in a boardroom where they can run a wizard PowerPoint presentation, but face to face they are not impressive people.
I hope the speculation about ACs tenure is correct and very soon he will leave the parish
Aug 3, 2020, 12:52 pm
#487
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: north of heathrow
Posts: 1,109
i so agree with you. It’s a sad sad day.
I wish you, and your many colleagues who are leaving, well and do try and remember that you have been part of once brilliant airline, with true professionals and a reputation that was the envy of the aviation world. You made BA great...WW and AC cannot say that and they can’t take that away from you guys!
I wish you, and your many colleagues who are leaving, well and do try and remember that you have been part of once brilliant airline, with true professionals and a reputation that was the envy of the aviation world. You made BA great...WW and AC cannot say that and they can’t take that away from you guys!
My head is held high, I really didn’t have much of a choice, I don’t have any of the things on their wish list of ‘skills’.
Aug 3, 2020, 1:01 pm
#488
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Mucci de la Cuisine Aérienne du Réseau Courte Durée de British Airways
Posts: 4,704
Aug 3, 2020, 1:09 pm
#489
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,668
I absolutely get what you are saying but it would appear that BA are the only company, certainly in the aviation sector, that have dealt with it in this manner. There were alternatives to this course of action. I agree that some TU’s have not helped at all with their inaction And refusal to engage but part of that was, IMO, a reaction to the way BA started it off.
So, I agree that wholesale change was required to deal with this unprecedented situation, I just feel(as do a whole bunch of others) that it could have been dealt with so differently. Of course there would have been substantial pain but maybe, just maybe, the remainers would still feel some pride for the job they do and the company they work for.
So, I agree that wholesale change was required to deal with this unprecedented situation, I just feel(as do a whole bunch of others) that it could have been dealt with so differently. Of course there would have been substantial pain but maybe, just maybe, the remainers would still feel some pride for the job they do and the company they work for.
It would appear BA were way too aggressive at the start which triggered a hostile union response. Hopefully lessons will be learnt
Aug 3, 2020, 1:18 pm
#490
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,668
Its not that change had to happen, rather its the way in which BA went about it.
BA staff are not stupid, no one was looking at this thinking that we would all remain as before. What irritates is the aggressive, unpleasant, bullying and underhand way things have been done.
One simple example from the pilots world. We were issued with s188 letters, we knew that this is a legal requirement should you need to make redundancies. A decent management or even one with any scruples could have, at that point, stated that should CR be required that the staff who were made tedundant woukd get a call back before any possible future pilot recruitment. However, they didn't do that, instead it was held over BALPA as something they could "buy" with further productivity improvements.
There has been much talk of opportunism from management in this crisis, this is a clear cut case. If nothing else it is exceptionally poor man management, it angered the pilots immensely. Even as we were balloting on a deal the opportunistic and grasping management were trying to change the deal; the result of the ballot had to be delayed as, essentially there was at that point no deal. They used this tactic throughout the negotiations - agree something only to slip it back in at the last-minute. They are fundamentally not men of their words.
Now you might say this is just business and it is sound tactics to run negotiations in this fashion. Tactically you may well be right but strategically this is very stupid as it just stores up resentment for the future.
If anyone here thinks BAs recovery will be smooth sailing on the IR front they are seriously underestimating the anger, which for the moment is being held in check by circumstances. BA had not had a pilot strike in their history, until the present Flight Ops leadership so seriosly misread the situation last summer. They are inept people managers.
I know most of you won't care so long as you get your tier points but a disgruntled and angry pilot workgroup was a probable factor on the loss of PI at Staines. Poor man management does affect flight safety.
In my time in BA this is the worst Leadership team and set of man managers I have experienced. They may be good in a boardroom where they can run a wizard PowerPoint presentation, but face to face they are not impressive people.
I hope the speculation about ACs tenure is correct and very soon he will leave the parish
BA staff are not stupid, no one was looking at this thinking that we would all remain as before. What irritates is the aggressive, unpleasant, bullying and underhand way things have been done.
One simple example from the pilots world. We were issued with s188 letters, we knew that this is a legal requirement should you need to make redundancies. A decent management or even one with any scruples could have, at that point, stated that should CR be required that the staff who were made tedundant woukd get a call back before any possible future pilot recruitment. However, they didn't do that, instead it was held over BALPA as something they could "buy" with further productivity improvements.
There has been much talk of opportunism from management in this crisis, this is a clear cut case. If nothing else it is exceptionally poor man management, it angered the pilots immensely. Even as we were balloting on a deal the opportunistic and grasping management were trying to change the deal; the result of the ballot had to be delayed as, essentially there was at that point no deal. They used this tactic throughout the negotiations - agree something only to slip it back in at the last-minute. They are fundamentally not men of their words.
Now you might say this is just business and it is sound tactics to run negotiations in this fashion. Tactically you may well be right but strategically this is very stupid as it just stores up resentment for the future.
If anyone here thinks BAs recovery will be smooth sailing on the IR front they are seriously underestimating the anger, which for the moment is being held in check by circumstances. BA had not had a pilot strike in their history, until the present Flight Ops leadership so seriosly misread the situation last summer. They are inept people managers.
I know most of you won't care so long as you get your tier points but a disgruntled and angry pilot workgroup was a probable factor on the loss of PI at Staines. Poor man management does affect flight safety.
In my time in BA this is the worst Leadership team and set of man managers I have experienced. They may be good in a boardroom where they can run a wizard PowerPoint presentation, but face to face they are not impressive people.
I hope the speculation about ACs tenure is correct and very soon he will leave the parish
Aug 3, 2020, 1:36 pm
#491
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 72
I’m sure you didn’t...but what skills you do have are worth far far more...they are just not valued by the current lot that are in charge! Their loss without a doubt.
Aug 3, 2020, 2:01 pm
#492
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 1,174
Got a few flights coming up - was thinking about gifting a big bag of Haribo (all wrapped packets) to the crew (might cheer them up after a pretty miserable few weeks) - would they accept it in the current climate? I’d give it with one corner facing for them to grab!
Aug 3, 2020, 2:14 pm
#493
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,262
Aug 3, 2020, 2:14 pm
#494
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 97
If BA prefers inexpensive script readers or robots it'll never again be the great airline it was. Their loss, not yours.
Aug 3, 2020, 2:32 pm
#495
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Programs: Mucci des Hommes Magiques et Magnifiques
Posts: 19,097
Well I have also closed my last Boeing door as well which I’m extremely happy about.