Details of BAs crew wage proposal
Jun 21, 2020, 1:58 pm
#121
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,736
Google suggests up to £14 an hour- £110 a day with zero hours contracts, split shifts and £28 a day to hire the van
So for £180 they must be working long days.
Article from 2019 says £12-£15 an hour for shifts of between one and four hours. Out of that, drivers have to pay for their own vehicle, fuel and expenses, including tolls and congestion charges.
Pay rates shouldn't be a race to the bottom.
Last edited by Barnaby100; Jun 21, 2020 at 2:11 pm
Jun 21, 2020, 2:13 pm
#122
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver (for now)
Posts: 1,000
If they work 5 days a week every week- no holidays.
Google suggests up to £14 an hour- £110 a day with zero hours contracts, split shifts and £28 a day to hire the van
So for £180 they must be working long days.
Article from 2019 says £12-£15 an hour for shifts of between one and four hours. Out of that, drivers have to pay for their own vehicle, fuel and expenses, including tolls and congestion charges.
Pay rates shouldn't be a race to the bottom.
Google suggests up to £14 an hour- £110 a day with zero hours contracts, split shifts and £28 a day to hire the van
So for £180 they must be working long days.
Article from 2019 says £12-£15 an hour for shifts of between one and four hours. Out of that, drivers have to pay for their own vehicle, fuel and expenses, including tolls and congestion charges.
Pay rates shouldn't be a race to the bottom.
Jun 21, 2020, 3:55 pm
#124
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,668
Exactly what has he does that is of benefit to the union members regarding this dispute then? Do tell exactly how the position has changed for the good of the BA staff from the day when BA announced the 12,000 redundancies?
Jun 21, 2020, 4:14 pm
#125
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,668
All BA seem to be doing (to me) is trying to impose the market rate on their crew. If it was such a low offer, they could just move airline and make far more. The point BA will make is that the option to do that doesn’t exist, and as such, they are by definition therefore paying the market rate.
Last edited by BOH; Jun 21, 2020 at 11:50 pm Reason: TMTM
Jun 21, 2020, 5:15 pm
#126
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,203
Deleted
Last edited by Sigwx; Jun 21, 2020 at 7:13 pm
Jun 21, 2020, 11:45 pm
#127
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: GGL
Posts: 490
Maybe you could interpret the responses you are are replying to more from the latter perspective before explaining again the former? Just a thought.
Jun 22, 2020, 12:10 am
#128
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,228
I just wanted to say on a personal level I am sorry for the thousands of people across BA who this is happening to. It must be an incredibly stressful time and this situation has arisen through absolutely no fault of any BA employee.
On the ‘MF earn the market rate because there are loads of applicants’ and ‘look at how much nurses get paid!’ arguments, I’d just say that whilst doubtless due to recent events there will be plenty of ex Flybe, Monarch and Thomas Cook people out there, BA has historically positioned itself above them (and the LCCs) in the market. It has therefore historically attracted very different types of people to various roles, including to senior cabin crew positions. How many UK airlines are there with a shorthaul business class cabin or a longhaul first class cabin? Or an Arrivals Lounge, First lounge, the need for ticket trained people, and who deal with truly international connecting passengers daily? How many are based at Heathrow & have to live close to there? Bit different to Jet2 crew based in Leeds or Birmingham. People apply to BA partly because of the prestige. I’d argue that the comparison between a BA CSD with 35 years’ experience and a delivery driver is misplaced.
It also makes me chuckle as there are plenty of lawyer, finance, consultant and other ‘professional services’ type people (I’m one of them) on here who earn much more than a delivery driver or a nurse. If we were told to take a pay cut to £28k in London & by the way we don’t need partners (our equivalent of CSDs) any more and we’re just going to rely on graduates/trainees to do everything (and offer them no incentive to stay & build a career because the standard is simply will there still be applicants for the job), and by the way Senior Associates, your role is being abolished so if you do re-apply you are likely to be managed by a 2nd year graduate, I wonder what we’d all think / say. After all, there are plenty of people with law degrees out there who would do almost anything to get in and Jones & Co accountants in Barnstaple or Anytown & Partners in Runcorn pay their accountants / lawyers £20k. Seems like market to me to work in the city - the demands of the job are just the same...
Many feel that nurses & delivery drivers are both in real terms and in absolute terms underpaid. That’s not an argument for a race to the bottom and it doesn’t take away from how difficult, personally, this must be for BA people.
Presumably the board have agreed to a similar cut in their own remuneration in proportion?
I get where people are coming from on this, but don’t forget that for the real people whose lives this will really affect - the same people who we have all been looked after by and who have put up with us for years - this is personal & is difficult. Just because others have gone before does not make it less so. I thought a bit of empathy & support might be nice.
On the ‘MF earn the market rate because there are loads of applicants’ and ‘look at how much nurses get paid!’ arguments, I’d just say that whilst doubtless due to recent events there will be plenty of ex Flybe, Monarch and Thomas Cook people out there, BA has historically positioned itself above them (and the LCCs) in the market. It has therefore historically attracted very different types of people to various roles, including to senior cabin crew positions. How many UK airlines are there with a shorthaul business class cabin or a longhaul first class cabin? Or an Arrivals Lounge, First lounge, the need for ticket trained people, and who deal with truly international connecting passengers daily? How many are based at Heathrow & have to live close to there? Bit different to Jet2 crew based in Leeds or Birmingham. People apply to BA partly because of the prestige. I’d argue that the comparison between a BA CSD with 35 years’ experience and a delivery driver is misplaced.
It also makes me chuckle as there are plenty of lawyer, finance, consultant and other ‘professional services’ type people (I’m one of them) on here who earn much more than a delivery driver or a nurse. If we were told to take a pay cut to £28k in London & by the way we don’t need partners (our equivalent of CSDs) any more and we’re just going to rely on graduates/trainees to do everything (and offer them no incentive to stay & build a career because the standard is simply will there still be applicants for the job), and by the way Senior Associates, your role is being abolished so if you do re-apply you are likely to be managed by a 2nd year graduate, I wonder what we’d all think / say. After all, there are plenty of people with law degrees out there who would do almost anything to get in and Jones & Co accountants in Barnstaple or Anytown & Partners in Runcorn pay their accountants / lawyers £20k. Seems like market to me to work in the city - the demands of the job are just the same...
Many feel that nurses & delivery drivers are both in real terms and in absolute terms underpaid. That’s not an argument for a race to the bottom and it doesn’t take away from how difficult, personally, this must be for BA people.
Presumably the board have agreed to a similar cut in their own remuneration in proportion?
I get where people are coming from on this, but don’t forget that for the real people whose lives this will really affect - the same people who we have all been looked after by and who have put up with us for years - this is personal & is difficult. Just because others have gone before does not make it less so. I thought a bit of empathy & support might be nice.
Last edited by IAMORGAN; Jun 22, 2020 at 12:21 am
Jun 22, 2020, 2:52 am
#129
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 108
As the pilot says at the beginning of every flight, the cabin crew are "here primarily for your safety".
I for one would prefer a number of well experienced staff on board (as well as some less experienced) who instinctively know how to help to save lives in an emergency situation. Hopefully they will never need to, but if the crew is mainly made up of the cheapest staff available, I am not sure they would be as effective.
Does anyone else consider this in their value judgement?
I for one would prefer a number of well experienced staff on board (as well as some less experienced) who instinctively know how to help to save lives in an emergency situation. Hopefully they will never need to, but if the crew is mainly made up of the cheapest staff available, I am not sure they would be as effective.
Does anyone else consider this in their value judgement?
Jun 22, 2020, 2:58 am
#130
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 15
Cabin crew are evaluated on their situational awareness and response time during training. I don't see how pay will change that, unless you're suggesting they're going to make training cutbacks which I doubt would be legal.
Jun 22, 2020, 2:59 am
#131
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Mucci de la Cuisine Aérienne du Réseau Courte Durée de British Airways
Posts: 4,704
I just wanted to say on a personal level I am sorry for the thousands of people across BA who this is happening to. It must be an incredibly stressful time and this situation has arisen through absolutely no fault of any BA employee.
On the ‘MF earn the market rate because there are loads of applicants’ and ‘look at how much nurses get paid!’ arguments, I’d just say that whilst doubtless due to recent events there will be plenty of ex Flybe, Monarch and Thomas Cook people out there, BA has historically positioned itself above them (and the LCCs) in the market. It has therefore historically attracted very different types of people to various roles, including to senior cabin crew positions. How many UK airlines are there with a shorthaul business class cabin or a longhaul first class cabin? Or an Arrivals Lounge, First lounge, the need for ticket trained people, and who deal with truly international connecting passengers daily? How many are based at Heathrow & have to live close to there? Bit different to Jet2 crew based in Leeds or Birmingham. People apply to BA partly because of the prestige. I’d argue that the comparison between a BA CSD with 35 years’ experience and a delivery driver is misplaced.
It also makes me chuckle as there are plenty of lawyer, finance, consultant and other ‘professional services’ type people (I’m one of them) on here who earn much more than a delivery driver or a nurse. If we were told to take a pay cut to £28k in London & by the way we don’t need partners (our equivalent of CSDs) any more and we’re just going to rely on graduates/trainees to do everything (and offer them no incentive to stay & build a career because the standard is simply will there still be applicants for the job), and by the way Senior Associates, your role is being abolished so if you do re-apply you are likely to be managed by a 2nd year graduate, I wonder what we’d all think / say. After all, there are plenty of people with law degrees out there who would do almost anything to get in and Jones & Co accountants in Barnstaple or Anytown & Partners in Runcorn pay their accountants / lawyers £20k. Seems like market to me to work in the city - the demands of the job are just the same...
Many feel that nurses & delivery drivers are both in real terms and in absolute terms underpaid. That’s not an argument for a race to the bottom and it doesn’t take away from how difficult, personally, this must be for BA people.
Presumably the board have agreed to a similar cut in their own remuneration in proportion?
I get where people are coming from on this, but don’t forget that for the real people whose lives this will really affect - the same people who we have all been looked after by and who have put up with us for years - this is personal & is difficult. Just because others have gone before does not make it less so. I thought a bit of empathy & support might be nice.
On the ‘MF earn the market rate because there are loads of applicants’ and ‘look at how much nurses get paid!’ arguments, I’d just say that whilst doubtless due to recent events there will be plenty of ex Flybe, Monarch and Thomas Cook people out there, BA has historically positioned itself above them (and the LCCs) in the market. It has therefore historically attracted very different types of people to various roles, including to senior cabin crew positions. How many UK airlines are there with a shorthaul business class cabin or a longhaul first class cabin? Or an Arrivals Lounge, First lounge, the need for ticket trained people, and who deal with truly international connecting passengers daily? How many are based at Heathrow & have to live close to there? Bit different to Jet2 crew based in Leeds or Birmingham. People apply to BA partly because of the prestige. I’d argue that the comparison between a BA CSD with 35 years’ experience and a delivery driver is misplaced.
It also makes me chuckle as there are plenty of lawyer, finance, consultant and other ‘professional services’ type people (I’m one of them) on here who earn much more than a delivery driver or a nurse. If we were told to take a pay cut to £28k in London & by the way we don’t need partners (our equivalent of CSDs) any more and we’re just going to rely on graduates/trainees to do everything (and offer them no incentive to stay & build a career because the standard is simply will there still be applicants for the job), and by the way Senior Associates, your role is being abolished so if you do re-apply you are likely to be managed by a 2nd year graduate, I wonder what we’d all think / say. After all, there are plenty of people with law degrees out there who would do almost anything to get in and Jones & Co accountants in Barnstaple or Anytown & Partners in Runcorn pay their accountants / lawyers £20k. Seems like market to me to work in the city - the demands of the job are just the same...
Many feel that nurses & delivery drivers are both in real terms and in absolute terms underpaid. That’s not an argument for a race to the bottom and it doesn’t take away from how difficult, personally, this must be for BA people.
Presumably the board have agreed to a similar cut in their own remuneration in proportion?
I get where people are coming from on this, but don’t forget that for the real people whose lives this will really affect - the same people who we have all been looked after by and who have put up with us for years - this is personal & is difficult. Just because others have gone before does not make it less so. I thought a bit of empathy & support might be nice.
Jun 22, 2020, 3:19 am
#132
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 108
I am sure that the training won't change, but what value do you put on experience?
Jun 22, 2020, 3:23 am
#133
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,668
As the pilot says at the beginning of every flight, the cabin crew are "here primarily for your safety".
I for one would prefer a number of well experienced staff on board (as well as some less experienced) who instinctively know how to help to save lives in an emergency situation. Hopefully they will never need to, but if the crew is mainly made up of the cheapest staff available, I am not sure they would be as effective.
Does anyone else consider this in their value judgement?
I for one would prefer a number of well experienced staff on board (as well as some less experienced) who instinctively know how to help to save lives in an emergency situation. Hopefully they will never need to, but if the crew is mainly made up of the cheapest staff available, I am not sure they would be as effective.
Does anyone else consider this in their value judgement?
Jun 22, 2020, 3:33 am
#134
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
Time for a break.
Some people need to think about the impact their repeated posts may be having on those who are directly affected by the consequences of the situation.
Please act with at least a modicum of sensitivity and humanity towards others. If you can't, I respectfully request you to refrain from posting.
LTN Phobia
Moderator: BA forum
Some people need to think about the impact their repeated posts may be having on those who are directly affected by the consequences of the situation.
Please act with at least a modicum of sensitivity and humanity towards others. If you can't, I respectfully request you to refrain from posting.
LTN Phobia
Moderator: BA forum
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Jun 22, 2020 at 5:54 pm