frandrake

Recovering from Covid-19 does not mean you are automatically immune, nor that you are not contagious anymore. Scientists are still researching this. It's unclear at this stage how this thing evolves exactly.

sb1982

I agree, a lot is unclear - what is clear is that the approx. 100,000 stat, isn't the total number of people who officially now have it and are spreading it - but who have ever tested positive for it, be it now or in December. gorps1 actually stated that 100,000 currently have it and are spreading it - not quite the situation. I expect as countries catch up with testing, the stats may seem to rise dramatically, and then slow.. when the tests become more routine and established.

Swampz64

Around 6% of resolves cases have ended up in a death.

sb1982

I don't think anyone is denying this is serious - but those stats (unlike flu) are based on known cases, many people who develop mild symptoms don't feature in that statistic. The WHO estimate is best to go on: "3.4% Mortality Rate estimate by the World Health Organization (WHO) as of March 3"

Remember it is expected 20,000 to 50,000 will die from flu in the USA this winter, and that's with a vaccine available - there are risks and we all have to weigh them up based on our personal circumstances and health. Be careful, keep personal hygiene, but if you're healthy don't stop travelling unless yours or another government officially advise against it. You can catch the virus anywhere - but going back on topic - not from 2 baggage handlers deep below the airport who have no contact with travellers whatsoever.

LTN Phobia

Back to topics specific to BA please.

If you want to make a post on general COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2, then please go to:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/coronavirus-travel-773/

LTN Phobia
Moderator: BA forum

mnhusker

Baggage handlers do "contact" passengers as the Covid 19 virus may stay alive on surfaces for an amazing long time.

See below:

nCoV-19 lives around 5 days on common surfaces, up to 28 days on optimal surface/temperature/humidity, and minutes to hours on porous materials. It's covered in this paper which also includes efficacy of various disinfectants. The first table is survival time on various surfaces.

At room temperature, nCoV-19 (aka HCoV-229E) persists longer at 50% relative humidity than at 20% RH when at "normal temperatures"

For an idea:
Steel - 8 - 24 hours at room temperature (RT), but 28 days at 40°F and 20% humidity. Higher or lower humidity drastically impacts persistence.
At "Normal" Temp 68-86°F (20-30°C)
Aluminum - 2-8 hours
Metals - 5 days
Wood - 4 days
Paper - 3 hour to 5 days depending on initial load/amount of virions
Glass - 4 days to 5 days
Plastics - 4 - 9 days (longer the higher the viral load/contamination)
Silicone Rubber - 5 Days (Be careful when borrowing a flashlight)
Latex Gloves - 8 hours
Disposable Gown (Tyvek) - 1 hour to 2 Days depending on initial level of contamination
Ceramics - 5 days
Teflon - 5 days

Bags on the carousel may be hazardous to your health if unloaded from the plane by an infected worker.

All the best.

DYKWIA

Only if the said baggage handlers are actually at work. As has been pointed out, they have not been at work since returning from Italy, so no chance of infecting baggage.

sb1982

And it's all about assessing the risk - catching COVID19 by touching a surface, I believe, is far less risky than breathing it in from someone infected nearby. It's possible, but perhaps the advice that people wash their hands repeatedly after handling things, and wipe surfaces etc - is better than closing the airport down? I don't know what some people are suggesting here, that BA closes terminal 5, that no airlines fly? I'm a little confused how this baggage handler situation is meant to be handled by BA according to people on here who keep repeating risks and mortality rates.

mnhusker

I can't find a source for your statement, do you have one?

There is a statement from Bloomberg 2 days ago saying this:
"The affected workers are recovering in isolation at home, British Airways parent IAG SAsaid Friday in an email. A small number of the luggage handlers’ colleagues are also being tested, a person familiar with the matter said."

This brings into question whether the two infected employees may have in fact been back to work for some period of time, or they may have contacted fellow workers at a pub somewhere, we don't know.

We only know that the two infected staff are not working NOW.

All the best.

sb1982

Can you actually tell us what you think BA should be doing now that the handlers are not at work? You're challenging everyone on here, but what's your solution? Close the airport, cancel all flights? Enlighten us..

DYKWIA

Sorry, it was from another thread (there are so many!).

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32159358-post66.html

mnhusker

That's the money quote, letting people know that there maybe a risk and letting them deal with it by:
1. carrying hand luggage in the cabin only
2. using hand wipes on their hold luggage like some do before using a shopping cart in the grocery store (surely LHR T5 could provide that like Costco or Safeway does ). Just like with other types of flu.
3. Perhaps even using disinfectant spray on the conveyers as the bags head to the carousels (that's what the Japanese would do, they are highly efficient and intolerant of germ risk).
4. Use this as more reason not to travel.

Knowledge is power, its about letting people know and make their own choices about risk.

mnhusker

Please see additional post

It's all about knowledge of risk to allow individual choices for flyers about dealing with risk.

Please note that other baggage handlers are being tested too.

Risk is similar to that of handling shopping cart is supermarket. So if you routinely use the wipes that are provided to wipe the cart off before you use it to try and mitigate the risk of the previous persons germs (I do, do you?) you probably would like to do the same with your hold luggage if possible in the current Covid 19 circumstance.

Does risk benefit analysis suggest the Terminal authorities should do more/other things, probably not unless more baggage handlers are affected.

Anger towards other posters is counter productive. Just trying to share alternative views based on available information.

All the best.

mnhusker

Thank you!

GinFizz

Quite possible that it COVID-19 hangs around for a long period on certain surfaces, and certainly better to assume a this for managing health risks, but for clarity it should be pointed out that HCoV-229E is a previously known human coronavirus, and is not the same virus as COVID-19/nCoV-19 (the data in the paper you cite are all from literature that predate the current virus - though some similarity in behavior may be expected for related human coronaviruses).