moondog

CX joining Star Alliance makes no sense because they own China in Oneworld, and CA owns China in Star Alliance. They have the best of both worlds.

moondog

CZ isn't going to ramp up in PKX seriously until it gets a better sense of local fondness of PKX. While connections are key for AA and BA, CZ needs strong O & D demand in order to justify launching flights.

gamecenteruk

PKX to London by CZ was approved several months ago from 2020, maybe CZ will use A380 to fly it? Then we will have more seats on J

SKRan

I am not a fan of ultra dense business class seats. CW already feels very cramped on 777s. CZ 380 feels even more like a dungeon.

CZ’s long haul food is better than BA’s but wine is poorer. Although it is remarkably cheaper than BA - not sure what changes when JV starts.

lsquare

I would be really happy if HKG ever becomes a *A hub. That would be amazing, but it's probably a pipe dream at this point in time.

lsquare

So you don't see any possibility of CZ joining OW?

moondog

Anything is possible, but CX doesn't want any mainland carriers in the alliance, and the AA/BA partnerships offer a considerable amount of value.

SKRan

How can you be so absolutely sure? Big players switching alliance happened and often related to equity investments. Things change.

moondog

Even if OW welcomed CZ with open arms (which is not the case), what could possibly motivate CZ to join?

SKRan

What’s the CZ motivation of getting AA and QR equity investments and a BA joint business? Getting real business. But to market itself in these markets, being a member of oneworld helps. For the average traveller CZ may be an unheard Chinese airline but being part of oneworld may add a bit of image there.

Continental left Skyteam because of the delta-northwest merger. It felt marginalised. CZ left skyteam because of the Delta investment into China Eastern and the joint business between MU and AFKL. Latam left oneworld because of DL investment.

All the signs suggest CZ fits alliance switcher profile. I see CX and QF being bitter, but what is CX getting out from OW?

13901

There's also the question of what CX puts into OW.

moondog

-AA and BA (with ~5 PKX flights per day) don't benefit CZ a great deal
-but, both AA and BA need a Chinese partner
-CX doesn't want any Chinese airlines in OW, full stop
-CX owns 30% of CA so it gets ample indirect exposure to the Mainland market

SKRan

CZ is not just about PKX. It has minor share in PVG and PEK. It also have extensive codeshare with JL and MH.

The reason CX rejects CZ especially is because CAN’s close location with HKG. So much competition between so many routes. In a sense QF and BA are CX’s competitors.

CX indeed owns a chunk of CA, but CA also owns a big chunk of CX.

percysmith

Codesharing intra asia? For example

AA: SIN/BKK/KUL/BOM/DEL/SGN/HAN
BA: Australian destinations/SUB/CGK/SGN
QF: Japan and Korea, India

brunos

In the pasr CX benefitted a lot from OW. It was an airline of choice for European (BA FFP) and American (AA FFP) travelling to China and Asia. With the agreements of BA and AA with CZ that role will diminish.
Nowadays extensive reciprocal agreements and JV become more important than alliances. CX blocking CZ entry into OW just leads to ill will from BA, Aa and QR and leads to those more-important agreements.

And i don't see the case for CX jointing ST or *A.
And with a small FFP member base, CX is in no position to have a big voice at OW. CX was a top-quality airline, but with the improved quality of AA and CZ products, it is not a major argument anymore.

In summary, i would expect that joining OW would be good for CZ brand image but the agreements with BA and AA are a good business shortcut. And BA will feed Chinese traffic into its European network, as well as attracting more European pax into China thanks to the feeder optons on CZ. .