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B737 Max : CAA bans from UK airspace; Comair aircraft grounded

B737 Max : CAA bans from UK airspace; Comair aircraft grounded

Old Mar 10, 19, 5:39 pm
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B737 Max : CAA bans from UK airspace; Comair aircraft grounded


Following the tragic news of the crash of a new 737 max in Eithiopia the coverage in The Times queried whether this aircraft could be considered reliable. The rather technical discussion in the comments section by those who seemed to know their onions was not very favorable either. More than one said they would not want to fly in one.

I have noticed that Comair in South Africa have recently taken delivery of 8 of these for the route they share with BA from CPT. Does anyone know whether BA have plans to use the 737 Max from London?
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Old Mar 10, 19, 5:43 pm
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No. BA short haul is Airbus and Embraer driven and will be thus for a long time yet. Boeing will only be on long haul.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 5:48 pm
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I still don't think you can load standard cans (ULDs) into any 737? If so, BA won't like it; they put a lot of effort into can-loading all bags out of LHR and they won't want to go back. Let alone having to have two sets of pilot type ratings.

Also the aircraft is properly called the 737 MAX 8.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 6:53 pm
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Glad to hear this, I don’t think I’d want to fly in 737max after reading this article together with the comments.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 6:57 pm
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Do we even know what went wrong on the Ethiopian flight? if not how can one conclude the aircraft isn’t safe?

Last edited by KARFA; Mar 10, 19 at 7:13 pm
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Old Mar 10, 19, 7:56 pm
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Do we even know what went wrong on the Ethiopian flight? if not how can one conclude the aircraft isnít safe?
For me its the fact that this is the second fatal accident on a brand new 737-800 MAX in five months. The previous, Lion Air, gave cause for Boeing to issue new instructions to pilots. That's incredibly worrying.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 9:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Sigwx View Post
No. BA short haul is Airbus and Embraer driven and will be thus for a long time yet. Boeing will only be on long haul.
Hi. I thought BA operated by Comair is running 737's (not MAX) for local SA and regional Southern Africa flights.
Wiki: "Comair operates 24 Boeing 737 aircraft with almost 2 000 staff"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_(South_Africa)
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Old Mar 10, 19, 10:14 pm
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Originally Posted by DBCme View Post
Hi. I thought BA operated by Comair is running 737's (not MAX) for local SA and regional Southern Africa flights.
Wiki: "Comair operates 24 Boeing 737 aircraft with almost 2 000 staff"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_(South_Africa)
yes, the OP mentioned that and asked ďDoes anyone know whether BA have plans to use the 737 Max from London?Ē which is what Sigwx was replying to.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 11:58 pm
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Do we even know what went wrong on the Ethiopian flight? if not how can one conclude the aircraft isn’t safe?
I don't think anyone has concluded anything, but I can't blame people for feeling uneasy until we know what it was.

I don't feel particularly happy about flying on Max (I generally don't like the 737s in the first place though), so I've shifted my flight to the A321-operated service, and decided not to shift the 777 flight to a Max even though I planned to because of a better schedule.

(Note, this is not about Comair flights)

Why?
1) There is a possibility Max is a problem.

2) I also do not feel comfortable with the principle or grandfathering involved in 737s, although I'm not going into the technical discussion here.

3) If it's found to be a Max problem, or it's found to be semi-likely it was, it might disrupt the flight through grounding. Rebooking to a flight I want should it cause grounding may be difficult nearer the time, or once it's been grounded. Taking an early action prevents inconvenience to myself.

4) I don't particularly feel the need to feel somewhat wary while waiting for the outcome of the investigation if I can easily and simply avoid Max.

Admittedly I could change my flights entirely free of charge. I may have thought twice if I had to pay perhaps £200+ to change the flights.
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Old Mar 11, 19, 12:18 am
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
I don't think anyone has concluded anything, but I can't blame people for feeling uneasy until we know what it was.

I don't feel particularly happy about flying on Max (I generally don't like the 737s in the first place though), so I've shifted my flight to the A321-operated service, and decided not to shift the 777 flight to a Max even though I planned to because of a better schedule.

(Note, this is not about Comair flights)

Why?
1) There is a possibility Max is a problem.

2) I also do not feel comfortable with the principle or grandfathering involved in 737s, although I'm not going into the technical discussion here.

3) If it's found to be a Max problem, or it's found to be semi-likely it was, it might disrupt the flight through grounding. Rebooking to a flight I want should it cause grounding may be difficult nearer the time, or once it's been grounded. Taking an early action prevents inconvenience to myself.

4) I don't particularly feel the need to feel somewhat wary while waiting for the outcome of the investigation if I can easily and simply avoid Max.

Admittedly I could change my flights entirely free of charge. I may have thought twice if I had to pay perhaps £200+ to change the flights.
While flying is still considered a safe form of transport I do want to make my odds even better, so I also want to avoid 737 Max if possible
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Old Mar 11, 19, 12:43 am
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Do we even know what went wrong on the Ethiopian flight? if not how can one conclude the aircraft isnít safe?
Well, that is the point of the "safety principle" that authorities tend to adopt in such cases. In effect, if you have doubt as to whether the problem is due to a fault on the aircraft, you ground it first and think later. That is what China has just done with the 738 Max, and that is what we do on GMO and various food additives. You don't wait till you have proved that the link you suspect is indeed true, because if you waited for that, you may cause a number of avoidable catastrophes to occur.

Of course, the question of what constitutes sufficient suspicion is really hard to agree on, but I wouldn't be overly surprised if a few people start following suit with the Chinese.
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Old Mar 11, 19, 1:15 am
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Originally Posted by gypsyjaney View Post
I have noticed that Comair in South Africa have recently taken delivery of 8 of these for the route they share with BA from CPT. Does anyone know whether BA have plans to use the 737 Max from London?
Comair has only had one 737 MAX delivery so far of the 8 they ordered. The rest of the fleet is a mix of -400s and -800s.

As said by others there are no plans for single-aisle Boeing aircraft on European short haul.
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Old Mar 11, 19, 1:40 am
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Itís one thing when a slightly fly-by-night airline like Lion crash. They damage, bend and send 737s swimming on a fairly regular basis. Itís much easier to believe that such an airline would poorly train their pilots on the small differences between 737NG and MAX. Ethiopian are considered very safe, have a modern fleet of 787/777/A350, high standards and certainly donít crash regularly. Itís much believable that a 10k hours captain wouldnít have been aware of the Lion crash, the supposed contribution of aircraft systems and the recovery procedures.

Clearly the causes of this crash are unknown. But itís harder to blame the crew and airline.
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Old Mar 11, 19, 1:56 am
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Exactly. We definitely canít conclude that Boeing is at fault yet. However, the accident does certainly cause an eye brow to be raised and I am sure we, especially Boeing, are eager to find the cause as soon as possible. If it does end up being a related issue to the Lion Air crash, or another failure - I will be incredibly, incredibly upset and irritated at the Boeing corporation. However, from a safety perspective you can absolutely guarantuee Boeing will invest every dollar to ensure this will not happen again because it will kill their company otherwise. If passengers wonít fly Boeing, airlines wonít buy Boeing.

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Old Mar 11, 19, 3:09 am
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I imagine they will use them for CPT JNB and other regional flights. I would still rather fly Comair than SAA (within SA) given SAA's financial troubles.
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