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-   -   Flying on separate OW tickets and missing connecting flight (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1959095-flying-separate-ow-tickets-missing-connecting-flight.html)

Reissuruuna Mar 3, 2019 7:06 am

Flying on separate OW tickets and missing connecting flight
 
I'm flying today MAD LHR and LHR HEL with separate tickets (BA / AY). I have three hours connection at LHR but now the the flight from MAD to LHR is delayd for two hours and one hour connection at LHR from T5 to T3 is very tight.

Few years ago OW has "Oneworld connection protection on separate tickets". Is still still valid? So if I'm missing my connecting flight to HEL will BA handle this?

Thanks.

NickB Mar 3, 2019 7:14 am


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30841959)
I'm flying today MAD LHR and LHR HEL with separate tickets (BA / AY). I have three hours connection at LHR but now the the flight from MAD to LHR is delayd for two hours and one hour connection at LHR from T5 to T3 is very tight.

Few years ago OW has "Oneworld connection protection on separate tickets". Is still still valid? So if I'm missing my connecting flight to HEL will BA handle this?

Thanks.

BA will not protect you on separate tickets. You may want to check what AY policy is regarding missing a flight due to events beyond your control, especially where you miss only by a few minutes. AY may conceivably have some kind of so-called "flat tire" rule that would allow re-routing on the next available service.

NickB Mar 3, 2019 7:19 am

Just another thought: is there another BA/IB MAD-LHR flight leaving earlier and can you see whether BA would reroute you on that one instead?

rapidex Mar 3, 2019 7:26 am

First of all to set the record straight, you do not have a connection, but 2 completely separate tickets. BA will do nothing for you as their contract is to get you from MAD-LHR. Not sure what AY will do for you, but I suspect nothing.

To make matters worse minimum connection time T5-T3 is 90 minutes, so to do it in 60 minutes on separate tickets is something of a challenge. Your best bet would be to hope the delay increases to more than 3 hours and you can use the EU261 compo to pay for a new ticket.Good luck.

Reissuruuna Mar 3, 2019 7:28 am

Thanks for your reply. BA CS told me not to be worried about connection. If I'm missing the flight they will reroute even I have separate tickets. I'm OWE if this may help. Fingers crossed.

LCY8737 Mar 3, 2019 7:40 am

A one hour connection is doable, but you will probably want to run and throw queuing etiquette over board on this occasion.

If you do miss your connection, airport staff can - and in many cases will - help you. I'm not sure about the details, those would be covered by AYs conditions of carriage and the good will of the person you're dealing with.

Often1 Mar 3, 2019 7:47 am

The only OW carrier which protects across separate tickets is AA. BA does not even protect acrross its own tickets.

As OP does not have a connection, but is rather than simply transferring between separate tickets, he is entirely at the mercy of the goodwill of BA and then AY as to whether one or the other rebooks him with or without fee or whether he must purchase a new ticket. This will all be dealt with on the ground with the luck of the draw.

TTmex Mar 3, 2019 7:48 am

Best of luck. I have been there before and luckily just made the connection. Let us know how you get on. I know AA have a policy (deeply embedded in small print) that covers separate tickets, but I believe the other OW guys all left agreements some 3 years ago. It seems be at the discretion of whoever you deal with.

orbitmic Mar 3, 2019 9:25 am


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30842011)
Thanks for your reply. BA CS told me not to be worried about connection. If I'm missing the flight they will reroute even I have separate tickets. I'm OWE if this may help. Fingers crossed.

i think they talked nonsense to be honest. And your status does not make a difference though might put you higher up the list for a goodwill gesture but certainly no guarantee. The official situation is that if you miss your lhr-hel you are just losing your ticket and will need to buy a brand new one if you want the next flight. Anything beyond that will be a bonus.

KARFA Mar 3, 2019 9:40 am


Originally Posted by orbitmic (Post 30842380)
i think they talked nonsense to be honest. And your status does not make a difference though might put you higher up the list for a goodwill gesture but certainly no guarantee. The official situation is that if you miss your lhr-hel you are just losing your ticket and will need to buy a brand new one if you want the next flight. Anything beyond that will be a bonus.

Indeed, the BA agent was talking rubbish. Once the OP has stepped off the BA flight BA will have no further interest in rebooking the OP. The hope may be to plead one's case with an AY agent who may help but (unless AY's policy is unusually generous) may just tell the OP to buy a new ticket.

I wish the OP luck and hope they make it - if landing at T5B or C remember that you can pick up the airside connection bus from T5B so no need to go back to T5A.

Globaliser Mar 3, 2019 9:45 am


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30841959)
I'm flying today MAD LHR and LHR HEL with separate tickets (BA / AY). I have three hours connection at LHR but now the the flight from MAD to LHR is delayd for two hours and one hour connection at LHR from T5 to T3 is very tight.


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30842011)
BA CS told me not to be worried about connection. If I'm missing the flight they will reroute even I have separate tickets. I'm OWE if this may help. Fingers crossed.


Originally Posted by orbitmic (Post 30842380)
i think they talked nonsense to be honest. And your status does not make a difference though might put you higher up the list for a goodwill gesture but certainly no guarantee. The official situation is that if you miss your lhr-hel you are just losing your ticket and will need to buy a brand new one if you want the next flight. Anything beyond that will be a bonus.

I'm not sure that this is a BA --> AY connection, anyway. The only delayed MAD-LHR flight today appears to be IB3172, scheduled 1450-1620, ATD 1706, ETA 1758.

Those scheduled times would be consistent with the OP's description of "connecting" to an AY flight to HEL, as AY1342 is scheduled to depart LHR at 1925 (ie 3:05 after IB3172's scheduled arrival at LHR).

At any rate, with an ETA of 1758 and a STD of 1925, the OP still has a decent chance of making it to the onward flight, if the weather does not prove to be disruptive.

simons1 Mar 3, 2019 10:39 am


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30842011)
Thanks for your reply. BA CS told me not to be worried about connection. If I'm missing the flight they will reroute even I have separate tickets. I'm OWE if this may help. Fingers crossed.

Good luck but most likely they have just said whatever was necessary to keep you quiet and move you on.

Reissuruuna Mar 3, 2019 12:59 pm

Thank you for your replies Gents.

I had already boarded the IB aircraft, when the crew annouced/let us know of about an even more extended delay (45 min). We decided with my co-flyer to disembark the aircraft, yes a radical decission.

However, we were able to reach an advanced plan. We're flying with TP to our overnight final OW (!) destination. At this time I'd like to provide the audience with the certain details of the OW customer service. The travel party in question was OWE and OWS (!). Eventually I was expecting a bit more from IB.

This ain't a holiday, I'd need to be at HEL in time for an early morning busines meeting the next morning. OW CS was below the standard. Nothing, actually I felt like being the party causing the trouble. No advice, no booking to the next flight... - nothing just the usual 80's, pls. go away.

Ps. Off course we were well aware of the risk when booking separete tickets, but still

Ldnn1 Mar 3, 2019 1:10 pm


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30843080)
However, we were able to reach an advanced plan. We're flying with TP to our overnight final OW (!) destination.

Sorry so to be clear, you just bought a new ticket with TAP Portugal to HEL, correct?

To be honest I'm not sure what you're implying by 'this ain't a holiday'. Personally I have a lot more sympathy when people's leisure plans are disrupted. Business is business, and you made a business decision to book separate tickets I'm afraid.

IAMORGAN Mar 3, 2019 1:17 pm

Thanks for the update and I’m glad you’ll get to your final destination (unless there is any further disruption!)

Sorry to hear IB didn’t help. I’m not that surprised really but understand your disappointment.

Safe travels to HEL!




The _Banking_Scot Mar 3, 2019 1:24 pm

MAD Runway regeneration work for March 2019
 
Hi,
From the Iberia forum
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/iber...elays-mad.html

Looks Like MAD is down 1 runway for March.

Not sure if it caused the OP's delays but it seems to be causing delays at MAD.

Regards

TBS

Reissuruuna Mar 3, 2019 1:25 pm


Originally Posted by Ldnn1 (Post 30843123)
Sorry so to be clear, you just bought a new ticket with TAP Portugal to HEL, correct

That's correct. We bought a new ticket with TAP.

Dave Noble Mar 3, 2019 1:39 pm


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30843080)
This ain't a holiday, I'd need to be at HEL in time for an early morning busines meeting the next morning. OW CS was below the standard. Nothing, actually I felt like being the party causing the trouble. No advice, no booking to the next flight... - nothing just the usual 80's, pls. go away.

Ps. Off course we were well aware of the risk when booking separete tickets, but still

Why does it matter that it is a business meeting - Why would a customer service agent do anything other than rebook onto another flight to London if it became necessary

You statte that you were well aware of the risk - the "but still" implies that you expected to be able to buy separate tickets but not take the drawbacks that go with it. If you had a through ticket and would misconnect, it may have rebooked on another flight to Helsinki

Agneisse Mar 3, 2019 2:09 pm


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30843080)
Thank you for your replies Gents.

I had already boarded the IB aircraft, when the crew annouced/let us know of about an even more extended delay (45 min). We decided with my co-flyer to disembark the aircraft, yes a radical decission.

However, we were able to reach an advanced plan. We're flying with TP to our overnight final OW (!) destination. At this time I'd like to provide the audience with the certain details of the OW customer service. The travel party in question was OWE and OWS (!). Eventually I was expecting a bit more from IB.

This ain't a holiday, I'd need to be at HEL in time for an early morning busines meeting the next morning. OW CS was below the standard. Nothing, actually I felt like being the party causing the trouble. No advice, no booking to the next flight... - nothing just the usual 80's, pls. go away.

Ps. Off course we were well aware of the risk when booking separete tickets, but still

I really don't understand the "but still". You chose to gamble with the separate tickets (presumably lower cost) knowing the risks, and lost. Why is it somehow IB/OW's responsibility to get you out of that pickle? And what sort of advice could the agent possibly give, other than to book a protected through ticket next time?

If anything, in these situations I have more sympathy for inexperienced leisure travelers genuinely unaware of the rules, than businesspeople who knew the potential pitfalls and then are annoyed others didn't bend the rules to accommodate them.

adrianlondon Mar 3, 2019 2:28 pm

By not taking the flight to HEL, the return ticket is now cancelled I assume. If there was one.

simons1 Mar 3, 2019 2:36 pm


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30843080)
At this time I'd like to provide the audience with the certain details of the OW customer service. The travel party in question was OWE and OWS (!). Eventually I was expecting a bit more from IB.

This ain't a holiday, I'd need to be at HEL in time for an early morning busines meeting the next morning. OW CS was below the standard. Nothing, actually I felt like being the party causing the trouble. No advice, no booking to the next flight... - nothing just the usual 80's, pls. go away.

Ps. Off course we were well aware of the risk when booking separete tickets, but still

The fact that you are OWE and OWS is irrelevant. You knew the risks, as you say, so this sounds more like DYKWIA thread stuff.

As anticipated what you were told by BA CS was actually BA BS.

If you have commitments it's best just to book a single ticket. Or better still a non stop flight.

orbitmic Mar 3, 2019 2:43 pm

I feel really sorry for the OP. Even when one knows the risks, it is never pleasant to be in that situation. That said, unfortunately, the outcome was the one that most of us would have predicted. It seems that the OP thought that the fact that the two separate bookings were on OW airlines would give him/her a greater chance of "informal protection". It doesn't. Whether you do IB and AY (or as mentioned BA and BA) or IB and AF, LH, or U2 is just the exact same. It seems that the OP thought that the passengers' OW status would give him/her a greater chance of informal protection, again, it doesn't, no frequent flyer card or Gold Guest List gives the same rights in this situation, ie none, and any help should be taken as sheer luck as the entitlement is exactly nil.

Incidentally, the OP refers to customer service but it is actually certain that no help would come from that corner. If any 'sheer luck' is ever going to come, that will be only from the airport staff which are the only ones who might be entitled to go beyond the rules.

Anyway, a very unhappy experience for the OP, and that is sad, but also unfortunately a largely predictable one.

PS: Am I the only one puzzled about what the relevance is of any of this to the BA forum?

tobsw Mar 3, 2019 2:57 pm

No relevance whatsover. It´s a DYKWIA.... clearly. What are customer service goign to tell you, when you tell them you have two separate tickets? Go away... find new tickets...

Often1 Mar 3, 2019 3:07 pm


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30843080)
Thank you for your replies Gents.

I had already boarded the IB aircraft, when the crew annouced/let us know of about an even more extended delay (45 min). We decided with my co-flyer to disembark the aircraft, yes a radical decission.

However, we were able to reach an advanced plan. We're flying with TP to our overnight final OW (!) destination. At this time I'd like to provide the audience with the certain details of the OW customer service. The travel party in question was OWE and OWS (!). Eventually I was expecting a bit more from IB.

This ain't a holiday, I'd need to be at HEL in time for an early morning busines meeting the next morning. OW CS was below the standard. Nothing, actually I felt like being the party causing the trouble. No advice, no booking to the next flight... - nothing just the usual 80's, pls. go away.

Ps. Off course we were well aware of the risk when booking separete tickets, but still

There is no such thing as "OW customer service." Period.

CS is provided by the carrier which caused the delay and that carrier's obligation was to get you to LHR, not to HEL. Period.

I have no idea whether the staff you dealt with were polite or rude and, if the latter, that is never acceptable. But, beyond tone of voice, it would have been extraordinary for BA to reroute a person traveling to LHR, to HEL instead.

Traveling on separate tickets is a matter of risk tolerance. You were willing to bear that risk and that is absolutely fine. Many people do. But, what is not fair is to then turn around and, having chosen to take on a risk, suggest that "OW" did not do its job here. It did.

Globaliser Mar 3, 2019 3:14 pm


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30843080)
This ain't a holiday, I'd need to be at HEL in time for an early morning busines meeting the next morning. ...

Ps. Off course we were well aware of the risk when booking separete tickets, but still

So you not only gambled, you gambled big (ie only planning a 3:05 "connection" at LHR on separate tickets), you lost that gamble, you expected IB to pick up the pieces for you on the basis of some supposed personal importance (OWE + OWS doesn't qualify for that), and you now want to whinge because reality struck?

Anyway, if you were booked on that 1925 AY flight LHR-HEL, that's the last flight of the day from LHR to HEL. If you really do have to be in HEL in time for an early morning business meeting tomorrow, that wasn't a safe plan - even if you had a through ticket. What if that aircraft had gone tech at LHR? Just one thing going wrong would mean you'd miss that meeting.

IAMORGAN Mar 3, 2019 4:23 pm

OP, the last Finnair flight to HEL actually left Heathrow 55 minutes late at 20:20. The IB A340 flight arrived at 18:38 instead of 16:20. So you probably would have made it. However, I totally understand if you needed to be in HEL tomorrow the need to take control and make alternative plans.

Best of luck for a successful trip to HEL, and chalk this one up to ‘shit happens’!

Reissuruuna Mar 3, 2019 8:16 pm


Originally Posted by orbitmic (Post 30843428)
PS: Am I the only one puzzled about what the relevance is of any of this to the BA forum?

BA ticket, operated by IB.

simons1 Mar 3, 2019 11:52 pm


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30844374)
BA ticket, operated by IB.

So the operating carrier is IB and your complaint is with them. Maybe the folks on the IB board may have some ideas.

snaxmuppet Mar 4, 2019 12:50 am

A case of DYKWIA I think

LondonElite Mar 4, 2019 12:57 am

Did you buy a return TAP ticket or just a one-way?

the810 Mar 4, 2019 2:33 am


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30843080)
However, we were able to reach an advanced plan. We're flying with TP to our overnight final OW (!) destination. At this time I'd like to provide the audience with the certain details of the OW customer service. The travel party in question was OWE and OWS (!). Eventually I was expecting a bit more from IB.

This ain't a holiday, I'd need to be at HEL in time for an early morning busines meeting the next morning. OW CS was below the standard.

Well, if you really needed to be in HEL, you should have bought ticket from MAD to HEL, not a ticket from MAD to LHR.


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30843080)
Ps. Off course we were well aware of the risk when booking separete tickets, but still

Apparently you weren't as you said you "expected more". Lesson learned, I guess.

orbitmic Mar 4, 2019 3:15 am


Originally Posted by the810 (Post 30845132)
Well, if you really needed to be in HEL, you should have bought ticket from MAD to HEL, not a ticket from MAD to LHR.

I have been quite clear about what I thought the OP could/could not expect, but let's remember that some times things are more complicated than that. It does happen that you buy a ticket to somewhere, and then learn a while later that you have to be somewhere else, often without an option to change to that new destination. At that stage, one's options are either to add a second flight on a separate ticket or to lose the one you have (potentially with bad consequences if it is only the outbound part of a more complex itinerary). Of course, if you choose to add a second separate booking, we have all been very clear to the OP about the risks and that OW/OW and status or not do not generate protection and I suspect OP has now realised (at a hefty price) that it is indeed the case, but I think it is important to recognise that people will and sometimes do find themselves in such situation for a whole range of reasons and that there are many configurations in which despite the risk, this might still be the comparatively most sensible option.

Globaliser Mar 4, 2019 3:22 am


Originally Posted by orbitmic (Post 30845211)
... without an option to change to that new destination.

This situation is now pretty rare, especially if one is flying on business. And especially if one is flying on (apparently) time-critical business.

IAMORGAN Mar 4, 2019 3:37 am

I understand the OP’s frustration - and I actually share it. What the OP experienced is symptomatic of the dumbing down of the industry. When one makes a booking with a LCC, then to my mind you kind of know you’re on your own when things go wrong.

Here, the OP is a top tier oneworld frequent flier, booking on two legacy carriers, both members of OW. One OW carrier was delayed, causing the OP to miss their other OW flight. In those circumstances, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think booking OW would help. OP may have read, or have been thinking of, the beginning of the below thread for the position a few years ago

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onew...e-tickets.html
[edited to add: having skimmed through the thread, it isn’t clear to me that this is no longer OW policy]

Unfortunately, these days, legacy carriers have adapted their business practices to streamline processes, remove complexity, all to cut costs and make them more competitive with LCCs. In simple terms, this has meant a dumbing down of customer service. Same as densification, redundancies, no more complimentary food / drink, and so on.

We’ve all played our part in it by booking flights based primarily on price. It has become self-fulfilling, since in economy now there isn’t a huge amount to distinguish a legacy carrier from a LCC.

So, I think the OP is entitled to feel let down by the process. Yes, they got what they were ‘entitled’ to, and to some, it seems that as long as one gets their legal rights then they are perfectly happy. However, there are also warm & fuzzy concepts of ‘loyalty’ and the belief that by booking a legacy carrier this is going to provide more backup / support / service / care when things go wrong. The OP had that dashed last night and I can see where they are coming from. My instinctive emotional response is ‘what is the point of an airline alliance if they don’t provide a seamless service’? The rational answer is there were two contracts, OP booked to London & then missed their separate ticket to Helsinki, tough luck. But when one OW member causes that to happen, it would be lovely if the OP could have been looked after better, especially as a OW FF. Sadly, it’s 2019 and the answer is tough luck, we need to show Willie the money and Ryanair / easyjet wouldn’t do it so with prices as they are today if this were policy we’d be seeing OW airlines going bust.

DoctorCopper Mar 4, 2019 3:53 am

Well, if I read the threads posted by the OP correctly, BA Customer Services advised the OP that he would be OK. It was the combined wisdom of FTers that he would not be OK. Subsequently, the OP and colleague off-loaded themselves from the MAD-LHR flight and made alternative arrangements. The upshot of all that is we don’t know for sure how BA/AY would have managed the situation.

In any case, the OP and colleague needed to be in HEL at a certain time, and starting from MAD, a TP flight, presumably via LIS, was the only solution.

Doc Copper


lostfly Mar 4, 2019 3:55 am


Originally Posted by orbitmic (Post 30845211)
I have been quite clear about what I thought the OP could/could not expect, but let's remember that some times things are more complicated than that. It does happen that you buy a ticket to somewhere, and then learn a while later that you have to be somewhere else, often without an option to change to that new destination. At that stage, one's options are either to add a second flight on a separate ticket or to lose the one you have (potentially with bad consequences if it is only the outbound part of a more complex itinerary).

Isn't it possible to buy one of those insurances that cover missed connections? I researched this some time ago and I think they affordable. But they cover you only if the connection time is not too tight, usually 3 hours minimum.

IAMORGAN Mar 4, 2019 4:12 am


Originally Posted by DoctorCopper (Post 30845277)
Well, if I read the threads posted by the OP correctly, BA Customer Services advised the OP that he would be OK. It was the combined wisdom of FTers that he would not be OK. Subsequently, the OP and colleague off-loaded themselves from the MAD-LHR flight and made alternative arrangements. The upshot of all that is we don’t know for sure how BA/AY would have managed the situation.

In any case, the OP and colleague needed to be in HEL at a certain time, and starting from MAD, a TP flight, presumably via LIS, was the only solution.

Doc Copper


I completely agree. As I said upthread I think based on the AY flight in fact going out 55 mins late, the OP may well have made it. But when you have to be somewhere you sometimes have to take control of the situation & realistically if the OP had misconnected, I don’t *think* they’d have got to HEL that night in any event.

Globaliser Mar 4, 2019 4:14 am


Originally Posted by DoctorCopper (Post 30845277)
The upshot of all that is we don’t know for sure how BA/AY would have managed the situation.

It wasn't even a BA problem. He was flying IB from MAD to LHR, and then AY from LHR to HEL.

And however much looking after he might have got in an ideal world, it would not have fixed his problem if he had missed the AY from LHR to HEL, because AFAIK it was the last LHR-HEL of the day yesterday. If he had to be in HEL for an early morning business meeting today, he was stuffed. He would have been stuffed even if he had booked this itinerary on one ticket. Whatever protection or care one might (reasonably or unreasonably) expect from OW, it cannot extend to chartering a private jet at short notice to convey the pax to HEL just because they've missed their onward flight.

henry999 Mar 4, 2019 4:18 am


Originally Posted by Reissuruuna (Post 30842011)
Thanks for your reply. BA CS told me not to be worried about connection. If I'm missing the flight they will reroute even I have separate tickets.

Who is 'BA CS' here, exactly? Do you mean the check-in agent or service desk at MAD? (Are they even BA staff, or sub-contractors?) Or did you ring up BA and they told you this over the phone. Phone calls are recorded, so if this is what they actually told you, you can ask to have the tape reviewed. It won't help this now post-facto fiasco although if the phone agent lied to you just to get you off the line then he or she might should be sent for some re-training. You may also get a few Avios, if they are of any use to you.

MSPeconomist Mar 4, 2019 4:20 am

It's not wise to take the last flights of the night if one must be at the destination for an important business meeting the next morning.....and employers shouldn't try to play cheap on tickets in such circumstances, although the employer might have decided to "self insure" and pay sometimes for tickets that are thrown away as in this case in order to save lots of money on many of these risky "self connections" across separate tickets when they do work out.

OTOH, if MAD runway constructions is causing delays, switching to TAP and connecting through LIS might make the problem worse rather than better in that delays in these situations tend to get worse as the day goes on, so the OP rebooking to take a later flight to LIS (scheduled for a later departure than the IB operated MAD-LHR) and then doing a connection at LIS to a TAP flight LIS-HEL with no *A status doesn't seem like a proactive improvement to me. Yeah, TAP will rebook the LIS-HEL segment if the connection is missed as presumably it's all on one ticket, but this doesn't help the OP to get to HEL in time for that early morning meeting. In fact, I suspect that there's an earlier LHR-HEL flight than LIS-HEL if the outcome is that OP is stranded somewhere along the way.


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