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More inconsistency from BA FIRST: short trip report

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More inconsistency from BA FIRST: short trip report

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Old Feb 20, 2019, 5:39 pm
  #106  
 
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Originally Posted by NickB
Low pay usually results in higher turnover rates and a higher proportion of younger and less experienced crews

So BA pays lower KNOWING that its prime CUSTOMERS are receiving below par services ?

Are they? I thought that staff alongside with fuel were the two biggest expenses for an airline.
Correct. Staff also are the biggest headaches....so you need QUALITY employees.
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Old Feb 20, 2019, 11:44 pm
  #107  
 
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Originally Posted by icegirl
Complaining about issues they are not really paying for.
And how do you think people got the Avios?

Seriously, if this is your perception of customer service then it is easy to see why we get regular threads about inconsistency in F. Unless of course you are one of those who miraculously gets perfection on every flight 😉
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Old Feb 20, 2019, 11:54 pm
  #108  
 
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Originally Posted by RB211
What's more alarming is that Alex Cruz made comments about improving F more on the soft side than the hard side for the "new F" ................... If we cannot get consistent service now, what hope do we have when the service is even more demanding?
Yes I think the comments you refer to revolved around the fact that the all-new CW hard product will - according to Alex C - prove to be so strong that significant improvements in the First Class proposition will soon follow, specifically to create a suitably clear distinction between the two cabins (even though F capacity on BA overall is set to diminish over time, as has been happening with most other high volume carriers). Hopefully, Alex is right on both counts.

Meanwhile it is this sheer inconsistency in service standards which continues to baffle a good number of BA travellers, and the fact that such variations can be so dramatic within the same product and organisation. Even though many of us are now used to it, an element of surprise remains. It is akin to, say, shopping at Waitrose one day and finding the staff to be highly efficient and courteous ; and then, the following day at the same (or perhaps different) branch, staff turn out to be casual, disinterested, and unhelpful (not that I have ever known any cases of the latter in Waitrose)

The OP’s report has prompted a range of views / experiences from F flyers : some very positive views, but many not .... some very good experiences, but some far from good. This is the fundamental, almost inescapable, issue that crops up time after time : inconsistency in onboard standards.

When a thread continues over several days as this one has, it can be worth taking a step back to remind ourselves just why the OP had reason to feel let down by the airline. In this particular case, we’re not talking about trivial gripes to be casually dismissed - but clear-cut failures directly impacting on the overall inflight experience including :
sloppy and inattentive” service ; call bells unanswered whilst CC are stood around doing nothing ; and an unwelcome sense of being “rudely interrogated” rather than addressed with a modicum of courtesy, by name.
All this in First, remember.

During his WTM speech back in November 2017, Cruz himself said that they would need to do something “very special” with First in the future. He did not refer to inconsistency, but perhaps that is a tougher nut to crack. I believe the solution lies ultimately in a more rigorous approach to recruitment, coupled with increased investment in training and greater focus on performance measurement. In truth, a reliably first class service for ALL first class passengers is one of the defining characteristics of a premium airline.

BA may be happily filling many of their planes, but suffice to say there is much work to be done by senior management if the sort of experiences reported by the OP (and of course by many others here on FT or elsewhere on the web), are to become much more rare and far less commonplace.
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 12:38 am
  #109  
 
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Having worked for a gulf carrier I can certainly attest for what works there to ensure consistent, high end service in First. For example, crew that are solely trained to work in the first cabin. At BA, crew may find themselves working in any cabin on the aircraft on any given day, whereas in the Middle East, crew will work in the first cabin day after day, therefore becoming specialists. There is also a slightly higher pay grade and therefore feeling of prestige and responsibility for the first class crew - another trick missed by BA MF. Training and updates certainly comes into it too, with short, rushed briefings at BA not leaving enough time for service updates and reminders. In the gulf, it was common for crew members to have to list off names of recent wine changes and to recount such details like what scent was being used in the hot towels that month! You may scoff, but such attention to detail has its rewards.
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 12:53 am
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by smiles in the aisles
Having worked for a gulf carrier I can certainly attest for what works there to ensure consistent, high end service in First. For example, crew that are solely trained to work in the first cabin. At BA, crew may find themselves working in any cabin on the aircraft on any given day, whereas in the Middle East, crew will work in the first cabin day after day, therefore becoming specialists. There is also a slightly higher pay grade and therefore feeling of prestige and responsibility for the first class crew - another trick missed by BA MF. Training and updates certainly comes into it too, with short, rushed briefings at BA not leaving enough time for service updates and reminders. In the gulf, it was common for crew members to have to list off names of recent wine changes and to recount such details like what scent was being used in the hot towels that month! You may scoff, but such attention to detail has its rewards.
Welcome to FT!!! I think you may have detailed at least some of the reasons for the inconsistencies of service in First. And I don't see BA fixing these anytime soon - I hope I am wrong!

rb211.
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 1:21 am
  #111  
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Originally Posted by NickB
Low pay usually results in higher turnover rates and a higher proportion of younger and less experienced crews

Are they? I thought that staff alongside with fuel were the two biggest expenses for an airline.
Originally Posted by HMPS
Correct. Staff also are the biggest headaches....so you need QUALITY employees.
Originally Posted by subject2load


Meanwhile it is this sheer inconsistency in service standards which continues to baffle a good number of BA travellers, and the fact that such variations can be so dramatic within the same product and organisation. Even though many of us are now used to it, an element of surprise remains. It is akin to, say, shopping at Waitrose one day and finding the staff to be highly efficient and courteous ; and then, the following day at the same (or perhaps different) branch, staff turn out to be casual, disinterested, and unhelpful (not that I have ever known any cases of the latter in Waitrose)

When a thread continues over several days as this one has, it can be worth taking a step back to remind ourselves just why the OP had reason to feel let down by the airline. In this particular case, we’re not talking about trivial gripes to be casually dismissed - but clear-cut failures directly impacting on the overall inflight experience including :
sloppy and inattentive” service ; call bells unanswered whilst CC are stood around doing nothing ; and an unwelcome sense of being “rudely interrogated” rather than addressed with a modicum of courtesy, by name.

Originally Posted by smiles in the aisles
Having worked for a gulf carrier I can certainly attest for what works there to ensure consistent, high end service in First. For example, crew that are solely trained to work in the first cabin. At BA, crew may find themselves working in any cabin on the aircraft on any given day, whereas in the Middle East, crew will work in the first cabin day after day, therefore becoming specialists. There is also a slightly higher pay grade and therefore feeling of prestige and responsibility for the first class crew - another trick missed by BA MF. Training and updates certainly comes into it too, with short, rushed briefings at BA not leaving enough time for service updates and reminders. In the gulf, it was common for crew members to have to list off names of recent wine changes and to recount such details like what scent was being used in the hot towels that month! You may scoff, but such attention to detail has its rewards.
You have all just re highlighted my point about staff and that is again and that is premium service sector employees in the UK is a dying breed and now don’t usually tend to be British these days. If you go into 5 star hotel, or high end Michelin restaurant or premium branded stores most if not all will have a higher ratio of non British nationals most of the time and in some cases none at all. So what now, replace crew Asian and Eastern European staff?

High calibre British service staff are hard to come by and most of all cost money and lots of it. Now how many of you would pay EXTRA and if so how much MORE to get it?
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 1:32 am
  #112  
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Originally Posted by smiles in the aisles
Having worked for a gulf carrier I can certainly attest for what works there to ensure consistent, high end service in First. For example, crew that are solely trained to work in the first cabin. At BA, crew may find themselves working in any cabin on the aircraft on any given day, whereas in the Middle East, crew will work in the first cabin day after day, therefore becoming specialists.
Welcome to Flyertalk and welcome to the BA forum. It's good to see you here and I very much hope that given your experiences that we will see more of you in the future. Welcome on board smiles in the aisles.

My own view is that for BA, First will always be financially the least performing cabin, not due to First per se, but due to where the money comes from, WTP and CW. All you want is to cover the costs of the aspiration and concentrate on the bits of the aircraft that make serious money. BA isn't alone in this respect, First is not an expanding travel concept, Premium Economy is. So BA's route is simply different - essentially Club World Plus, priced accordingly and with much easier availability - in terms of seats and routes - than BA's main competitors. Which remain essentially Virgin-Delta, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa for the most important longhaul sectors - namely North America, India, South Africa. Tel Aviv, longhaul beach resorts. What Gulf carriers do on second tier sectors in the least performing cabin is probably interesting rather than an example.
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 1:46 am
  #113  
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I read an interview with Alex yesterday in which he wrote.
“What we will do in the first phase is choose our best First seat, upgrade it slightly and roll it together with the new Club seat”.
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Can I help you is offline  
Old Feb 21, 2019, 1:53 am
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by Can I help you
I read an interview with Alex yesterday in which he wrote.
“What we will do in the first phase is choose our best First seat, upgrade it slightly and roll it together with the new Club seat”.
His comment could be read 2 ways - roll it out together with the new Club seat (ie fit it to aircraft at the same time) or roll it together, presumably meaning combining aspects of both seats. Do you think he meant the former?
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 2:06 am
  #115  
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I think together, logistically it makes sense will the aircraft in the hanger to do both.
And on the subject of First, the 1st March will see the introduction of new China, cutlery, glasses and menus.
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 2:26 am
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by Can I help you
I think together, logistically it makes sense will the aircraft in the hanger to do both.
And on the subject of First, the 1st March will see the introduction of new China, cutlery, glasses and menus.
May I kindly ask if it will start on selected routes or will be "worldwide" from the beginning?
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 2:44 am
  #117  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
So BA's route is simply different - essentially Club World Plus, priced accordingly and with much easier availability - in terms of seats and routes - than BA's main competitors.
Exactly. Once one stops thinking of BA First as a first class product and instead think of it as Club World Plus (in the same sense that WT+ relates to WT), then it all becomes much more coherent.
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 2:52 am
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Lefly
May I kindly ask if it will start on selected routes or will be "worldwide" from the beginning?
I might have got this wrong but I’m pretty sure that is what I read, I have looked at random menus for March and they don’t show what I would be expecting to see with the new menus.
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 3:06 am
  #119  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
- essentially Club World Plus, priced accordingly and with much easier availability
This makes a great deal of sense. Attractive pricing and you manage expectations accordingly. A sort of premium version of no frills.
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Old Feb 21, 2019, 3:18 am
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Can I help you

I might have got this wrong but I’m pretty sure that is what I read, I have looked at random menus for March and they don’t show what I would be expecting to see with the new menus.
Perhaps it’s the date you have misremembered? Wasn’t this pencilled in for 1st May?
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