I actually like CW - am I crazy?
Jan 12, 2019, 2:35 pm
#17
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: LHR
Programs: BAEC Gold, SkyTeam Elite Plus, Sixt Gold
Posts: 418
I am among those who do not live the BA seat at all. I love the CW service, the wine selection and the overall atmosphere. As per the seat, I find it to completely lack space to a point that is not acceptable in 2019 with people bringing smartphones, tablets and laptops (and their chargers) with them. I think it also lacks privacy and when sleeping aisle seat I feel like sleeping in the corridor.
I also find very cheap the stool thing, where you have to stretch to lift and pull this thing, not always stable once you lie down. I do agree though the White Company bedding helps in keeping this dubious three piece bed together.
Indeed I can sleep in CW, but I find the product well below CX/QR/AA/UA when it comes to the seat.
I also find very cheap the stool thing, where you have to stretch to lift and pull this thing, not always stable once you lie down. I do agree though the White Company bedding helps in keeping this dubious three piece bed together.
Indeed I can sleep in CW, but I find the product well below CX/QR/AA/UA when it comes to the seat.
Jan 12, 2019, 2:39 pm
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: PER
Programs: QF P1, OZ Diamond
Posts: 46
... The key to me, as a frequent flyer, is sleep quality, and a 787 and 380 CW seat plus the White bedding remains the best way for me to achieve that, with UD 747 not far behind. Partly is due to being used to the seat so much, partly that I can normally get my preferred seat...
I think you've touched on two crucial points there: I think BA's product is well matched to their largest customer base - frequent travellers who value sleep above all else. Some other products such as Emirates seem to be designed to be heavily skewed towards impressing more of an aspirational occasional traveller crowd.
The other point is that BA treat their FFs very well in this regard, despite having so many - I think without having OW status and always being able to get my preferred seats I would have more of a dim view of their product.
I lack the wide experience of others, but I have developed an aversion to BA CW seating.
Accessible storage for oddments, such as the water bottle (if issued) would be top of my list. I will pass on the other minor niggles.
However, it’s infinitely better than being down the back.
Accessible storage for oddments, such as the water bottle (if issued) would be top of my list. I will pass on the other minor niggles.
However, it’s infinitely better than being down the back.
I'm a little apprehensive of what the new product will bring - I'm hopeful that it might end up similar to Q-Suites, if you compare seat maps between CW and Q-Suites (and squint a bit!) they actually have a similar layout. Q-Suites with less shelf and smaller foot cubbys is pretty much exactly how I pictured direct aisle access CW when it was first announced to be an evolution.
Jan 12, 2019, 2:54 pm
#19
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 263
One great thing about BA is that Club World is pretty much exactly the same regardless of what aircraft you're on (A321s excepted). This is a very valuable thing in my view.
My experience of quite a few other operators is that while many have aircraft with a superior seat to BA many aircraft in their fleets are inferior in my view.
Examples here are QR, EY, AA that I've flown recently.
My experience of quite a few other operators is that while many have aircraft with a superior seat to BA many aircraft in their fleets are inferior in my view.
Examples here are QR, EY, AA that I've flown recently.
Jan 12, 2019, 3:24 pm
#20
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spitalfields, London
Programs: BA Gold, KFC 'The Colonel's Club' Palladium tier, Mucci des Visions Célestes du Nord-Pas-de-Calais
Posts: 2,327
I do sleep in CW, that is the forté of the product, but that’s probably more due to being familiar and unexcited by the surroundings. Although I don’t sleep as well in non direct aisle access seats due to the unfamiliar sensation of feet pressing the seat behind, and I always find the cabins too hot. I get around the lack of storage by jamming items in the gap between the sidewall and seat.
I could fill pages here with my many dislikes of BAs long haul business class but I won’t as this will kill the vibe in a generally pro-CW thread.
I could fill pages here with my many dislikes of BAs long haul business class but I won’t as this will kill the vibe in a generally pro-CW thread.
Jan 12, 2019, 4:02 pm
#21
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Marriott Bonvoy
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Englandshire
Programs: SPG LT Plat, BA G, BD*LG, MG Blue+ ...
Posts: 16,032
Hi all, long time lurker first time poster here.
One thing I've never been able to understand is all the hate that the BA Club World seat seems to get all over the internet. ....... Of course staring into the eyes of your seatmate in the moments the divider is down can be quite awkward, there is no convenient storage and the lack of direct aisle access can be inconvenient (although I find CW particularly easy to jump over a sleeping passenger's legs). I'll preface all that by admitting I have only ever had window seats, except for the one time I had a B789 middle after losing FLUB roulette.
One thing I've never been able to understand is all the hate that the BA Club World seat seems to get all over the internet. ....... Of course staring into the eyes of your seatmate in the moments the divider is down can be quite awkward, there is no convenient storage and the lack of direct aisle access can be inconvenient (although I find CW particularly easy to jump over a sleeping passenger's legs). I'll preface all that by admitting I have only ever had window seats, except for the one time I had a B789 middle after losing FLUB roulette.
When it comes to CW, choice of seat seems to be very important in colouring the experience. We get a load of “CW is great ! providing you’re in 64K” posts which collectively suggest that the experience for the six-eighths of the passengers who aren’t permenantly in the window seat is not quite so stellar.
For an aisle sitter, having to endure the down up down up down up down divider pantomime while the window-dwellers meal items are passed across your lap, for example, is not much fun, neither is having a passenger-of-weight (who’s not quite so adept at hopping over sleeping legs in the dark) come crashing down on you in the middle of the night.
Jan 12, 2019, 4:42 pm
#23
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,683
I really like 62K. It's cooler by the door, you're flying with your head slightly raised because of the slight nose up attitude of the aircraft, and you have the shelf/bin next to you. Otherwise I like the CW seat, but not as much, I just wish all the seats had storage to hand. I like AA too, but I didn't much like the VS seat. IB and AY also good, although that's always been wide body on a European route, so more lounging than sleep. A far less experienced business flyer than many here.
Jan 12, 2019, 5:07 pm
#24
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,464
It may come as a surprise to many on here, that I actually agree with some of what you say and fundamentally disagree with other parts. Maybe I can try to explain why - you will see that it is situational dependent.
It is true that CW is hard to beat on very short overnight sectors - where you can sleep relatively well. For example, I have posted many times here that my preferred JFK/PHL-Europe route is BA CW, ideally in the UD of a 747, something which I must have flown at least 14 times in 2018. I will typically select the service where I can guarantee a row 62/64 window seat before booking. The reason for this is to maximise sleep on a very short sector - I can get the bed down as soon as the wheels leave the ground and sleep until 20 mins from hitting the tarmac at LHR. I cannot do this on AA, since their cabin service is not designed to maximise sleep in the way that BA is over the Atlantic. There are some caveats to this - if the only option (due to availability/schedule) is a 772 on this type of sector, then I have more reservations but I would likely still take it but it becomes closer decision over BA or AA. That being said, also on the 747 there is a (significant, being a relatively high status member on BA) that I would get an OpUp to BA's cramped class (aka 747 F) which I really dislike, and there is sometimes a tough discussion with a ground agent to get put back into the seat I selected originally. You will notice that I have only talked so far about eastbound TATL - for westbound TATL, I only take AA usually LHR-JFK on any of the their 777 services (772 or 77W) for the day flight - it is a much better overall proposition for me for a day time type of flight. Furthermore, I actively avoid the day flights from JFK/BOS to LHR since that is an utter waste of time for a business traveler.
Moving on, and to the point where I completely disagree with you (and it is linked to what I mentioned above). BA CW for a day flight anywhere is derisory. For example, just yesterday I took an ex-LHR BA CW day flight of about 8 hours in length on a 4-class 772 and I could not wait to get off the aircraft. In fact, I was actually relived when we landed. Being a 772, I had no where at all to place my mobile phone and considering I had paid for the full-flight inflight WiFi package to remain connected to the outside world, this was frustrating. It was a MF crewed sector, and to be honest, it was poor service overall. The food that I had was bordering on terrible/inedible - the burrata starter was like eating plastic cheese, and very low grade - I left most of it. The main was some chicken and rice dish which was ok in taste, but the meat was stringy and with a lot of connective tissue, again I left about half of it. The chocolate desert was good, and thankfully the CC offered me two of them since they were small and it was clear to her that I was hungry. Having connected very early in the morning, I was hungry - I did not eat the breakfast on the connecting CE service since I was waiting for what I hoped was better on my longhaul. The afternoon tea - I selected a tapas style plate - was mostly left since it was overbearingly salty (the frittata and the hummus). The CSM was nothing to write home about - I did get one of the very popular "greetings", but I'd rather just have been left to continue to watch the episode of Fawlty Towers on the postage stamp IFE screen. The constant up/down of the divider is so 90s - and stepping over someone else who is eating/sleeping/resting, whilst not difficult, I find is just rude to that person. Having spent the last 4-5 months on carriers decidedly away from BA J, it just crystallises to me how poor the overall BA CW product is in the cold light of day. And before any of the parrots chime in with "well, you should have flown with another carrier if you don't like it" - believe me I tried. My go-to carrier for day flights ex-ZRH is LX, and they were full in J so I could not get a seat (even fully flex, full fare J) - so it was not for the want of trying.
So you can see from the two examples above, that depending on the situation, BA CW can either be hard to beat, or downright rubbish. Hard to beat on short overnight TATLs where you only need to sleep in a window seat of the UD 747, and something to avoid on day flights particularly on the 772.
I've had the pleasure of flying many carriers over the last 2-3 years, and achieving both BA GGL/CCR (OWE) and M&M HON Circle (*A) so picking BA over some other product is not driven in any sense by a FFP. (It must be said, I do typically avoid ST carriers where possible, except AF La P as a rare treat). I typically earn the majority of my TPs on a mixture of AA, CX, QR and BA, and LX, SQ for M&M.
I wait with baited breath to see what the big reveal for BA J is going to be this year - it could be make or break my travels with BA in J over the coming years.
It is true that CW is hard to beat on very short overnight sectors - where you can sleep relatively well. For example, I have posted many times here that my preferred JFK/PHL-Europe route is BA CW, ideally in the UD of a 747, something which I must have flown at least 14 times in 2018. I will typically select the service where I can guarantee a row 62/64 window seat before booking. The reason for this is to maximise sleep on a very short sector - I can get the bed down as soon as the wheels leave the ground and sleep until 20 mins from hitting the tarmac at LHR. I cannot do this on AA, since their cabin service is not designed to maximise sleep in the way that BA is over the Atlantic. There are some caveats to this - if the only option (due to availability/schedule) is a 772 on this type of sector, then I have more reservations but I would likely still take it but it becomes closer decision over BA or AA. That being said, also on the 747 there is a (significant, being a relatively high status member on BA) that I would get an OpUp to BA's cramped class (aka 747 F) which I really dislike, and there is sometimes a tough discussion with a ground agent to get put back into the seat I selected originally. You will notice that I have only talked so far about eastbound TATL - for westbound TATL, I only take AA usually LHR-JFK on any of the their 777 services (772 or 77W) for the day flight - it is a much better overall proposition for me for a day time type of flight. Furthermore, I actively avoid the day flights from JFK/BOS to LHR since that is an utter waste of time for a business traveler.
Moving on, and to the point where I completely disagree with you (and it is linked to what I mentioned above). BA CW for a day flight anywhere is derisory. For example, just yesterday I took an ex-LHR BA CW day flight of about 8 hours in length on a 4-class 772 and I could not wait to get off the aircraft. In fact, I was actually relived when we landed. Being a 772, I had no where at all to place my mobile phone and considering I had paid for the full-flight inflight WiFi package to remain connected to the outside world, this was frustrating. It was a MF crewed sector, and to be honest, it was poor service overall. The food that I had was bordering on terrible/inedible - the burrata starter was like eating plastic cheese, and very low grade - I left most of it. The main was some chicken and rice dish which was ok in taste, but the meat was stringy and with a lot of connective tissue, again I left about half of it. The chocolate desert was good, and thankfully the CC offered me two of them since they were small and it was clear to her that I was hungry. Having connected very early in the morning, I was hungry - I did not eat the breakfast on the connecting CE service since I was waiting for what I hoped was better on my longhaul. The afternoon tea - I selected a tapas style plate - was mostly left since it was overbearingly salty (the frittata and the hummus). The CSM was nothing to write home about - I did get one of the very popular "greetings", but I'd rather just have been left to continue to watch the episode of Fawlty Towers on the postage stamp IFE screen. The constant up/down of the divider is so 90s - and stepping over someone else who is eating/sleeping/resting, whilst not difficult, I find is just rude to that person. Having spent the last 4-5 months on carriers decidedly away from BA J, it just crystallises to me how poor the overall BA CW product is in the cold light of day. And before any of the parrots chime in with "well, you should have flown with another carrier if you don't like it" - believe me I tried. My go-to carrier for day flights ex-ZRH is LX, and they were full in J so I could not get a seat (even fully flex, full fare J) - so it was not for the want of trying.
So you can see from the two examples above, that depending on the situation, BA CW can either be hard to beat, or downright rubbish. Hard to beat on short overnight TATLs where you only need to sleep in a window seat of the UD 747, and something to avoid on day flights particularly on the 772.
I've had the pleasure of flying many carriers over the last 2-3 years, and achieving both BA GGL/CCR (OWE) and M&M HON Circle (*A) so picking BA over some other product is not driven in any sense by a FFP. (It must be said, I do typically avoid ST carriers where possible, except AF La P as a rare treat). I typically earn the majority of my TPs on a mixture of AA, CX, QR and BA, and LX, SQ for M&M.
I wait with baited breath to see what the big reveal for BA J is going to be this year - it could be make or break my travels with BA in J over the coming years.
Jan 12, 2019, 5:08 pm
#25
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gatwick, UK
Programs: UA *G, BA Silver
Posts: 1,673
But the food and the service on BA exceeds most other carriers I know. I frequently find the AA food on LAX-LHR to be inedible, and the BA food is always pleasant and enjoyable - it doesn't try to be fancy, but then it can't fail either!!
Jan 12, 2019, 6:55 pm
#27
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Clapham
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 33
100% agree with the OP regarding the CW seat, I fly this a lot and find it better than many others.
I very much like the Qatar 787 seating but I intensely dislike Cathay’s business class. The seat is ok for sleeping but awful for sitting or working. I’ve just flown the CX A350-1000 on four sectors and I’d rather sit in CW. The take-off/landing position is too bolt upright. The raisable arm rest is too far away from the seat. The seat itself is too firm. Besides that, food on CX is awful and the crew can’t cope with the new service routine at all. Love the HKG lounges though.
i pray that next version of CW is an evolution of the current seat rather than anything dramatically different.
I very much like the Qatar 787 seating but I intensely dislike Cathay’s business class. The seat is ok for sleeping but awful for sitting or working. I’ve just flown the CX A350-1000 on four sectors and I’d rather sit in CW. The take-off/landing position is too bolt upright. The raisable arm rest is too far away from the seat. The seat itself is too firm. Besides that, food on CX is awful and the crew can’t cope with the new service routine at all. Love the HKG lounges though.
i pray that next version of CW is an evolution of the current seat rather than anything dramatically different.
Jan 12, 2019, 7:15 pm
#28
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,677
Hi all, long time lurker first time poster here.
One thing I've never been able to understand is all the hate that the BA Club World seat seems to get all over the internet. I often hear people suggesting that it is a very dense layout, but is that really the case? Call me crazy, but I actually rather enjoy CW - I love the lack of a foot cubby, the privacy and the soft padding that makes it comfortable to both lounge and sleep. Of course staring into the eyes of your seatmate in the moments the divider is down can be quite awkward, there is no convenient storage and the lack of direct aisle access can be inconvenient (although I find CW particularly easy to jump over a sleeping passenger's legs). I'll preface all that by admitting I have only ever had window seats, except for the one time I had a B789 middle after losing FLUB roulette.
If I had to rank all of the LH J hard products I have flown recently it would look something like this:
QR B77W Q-Suite - A great well designed seat, although I don't care too much for the door.
CX A359 Cirrus - The small changes from the B77W seat make this close to perfect
QF B789 Vantage XL - 10K is the single best J seat I have ever flown due to the enlarged footwell.
CX/AA B77W Cirrus - An all round great seat that is spacious, comfortable and gives a good sleep
QF A332 Vantage XL - I notice that the A330 is a bit narrower than a B789 in the footwells
AA B772/B789 Super Diamond - A great well padded seat, but I always hit my knees on the poorly placed table
QR B788 Super Diamond - As above, but have a much narrower footwell than the AA version
AY A359 Cirrus - Much firmer and with a smaller footwell than the CX and AA versions. Also lacks a legrest
BA B788/789/B772 CW - Probably the best sleep I have in any J seat
IB A346 Solstys - Very firm and very bland
QR B77W Minipod - I think the one I had was very old and knackered, the padding had perished and it was sagging at the feet
EK A388 Skylounge - So much wasted potential - incinsistent padding, sharp edges to catch my knees, and who wants warm softdrinks taking up prime storage space?
AY A333 Vantage - Solid and comfy enough, but 9 accross on an A330 means a very narrow seat!
QR A332/A333 and AA A321 Diamond - Comfy but feels very cramped and lacks privacy
EK B77W ?? - There's no words to describe how much I hate this seat - how does Emirates get away with having an angle flat sleeper on over half their fleet? I'd seriously take a BA WT+ seat over this on any sectors >~8hrs
As you can see that for me at least, CW holds its own against a lot of other products - no other J seat gives me a better sleep, and it's pretty comfy for just lounging and watching a movie etc. The lack of storage bugs me the most - I imagine a B744 or A388 UD window would be pretty close to J seat perfection for me with the storage bins!
One thing I've never been able to understand is all the hate that the BA Club World seat seems to get all over the internet. I often hear people suggesting that it is a very dense layout, but is that really the case? Call me crazy, but I actually rather enjoy CW - I love the lack of a foot cubby, the privacy and the soft padding that makes it comfortable to both lounge and sleep. Of course staring into the eyes of your seatmate in the moments the divider is down can be quite awkward, there is no convenient storage and the lack of direct aisle access can be inconvenient (although I find CW particularly easy to jump over a sleeping passenger's legs). I'll preface all that by admitting I have only ever had window seats, except for the one time I had a B789 middle after losing FLUB roulette.
If I had to rank all of the LH J hard products I have flown recently it would look something like this:
QR B77W Q-Suite - A great well designed seat, although I don't care too much for the door.
CX A359 Cirrus - The small changes from the B77W seat make this close to perfect
QF B789 Vantage XL - 10K is the single best J seat I have ever flown due to the enlarged footwell.
CX/AA B77W Cirrus - An all round great seat that is spacious, comfortable and gives a good sleep
QF A332 Vantage XL - I notice that the A330 is a bit narrower than a B789 in the footwells
AA B772/B789 Super Diamond - A great well padded seat, but I always hit my knees on the poorly placed table
QR B788 Super Diamond - As above, but have a much narrower footwell than the AA version
AY A359 Cirrus - Much firmer and with a smaller footwell than the CX and AA versions. Also lacks a legrest
BA B788/789/B772 CW - Probably the best sleep I have in any J seat
IB A346 Solstys - Very firm and very bland
QR B77W Minipod - I think the one I had was very old and knackered, the padding had perished and it was sagging at the feet
EK A388 Skylounge - So much wasted potential - incinsistent padding, sharp edges to catch my knees, and who wants warm softdrinks taking up prime storage space?
AY A333 Vantage - Solid and comfy enough, but 9 accross on an A330 means a very narrow seat!
QR A332/A333 and AA A321 Diamond - Comfy but feels very cramped and lacks privacy
EK B77W ?? - There's no words to describe how much I hate this seat - how does Emirates get away with having an angle flat sleeper on over half their fleet? I'd seriously take a BA WT+ seat over this on any sectors >~8hrs
As you can see that for me at least, CW holds its own against a lot of other products - no other J seat gives me a better sleep, and it's pretty comfy for just lounging and watching a movie etc. The lack of storage bugs me the most - I imagine a B744 or A388 UD window would be pretty close to J seat perfection for me with the storage bins!
Jan 12, 2019, 8:12 pm
#29
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHX, SEA
Programs: Avis President's Club, Global Entry, Hilton/Marriott Gold. No more DL/AA status.
Posts: 4,422
You're not crazy. I won't argue with many of the complaints against it, but I find it very comfortable for sleeping, and I like the Z position for lounging. I even like how the tray table slides out so i can have a drink and still get up for the lavatory. My wife hates CW though, she walked in while I was writing my reply and told me "no, he's crazy. You're both crazy". Hehe.
Jan 12, 2019, 8:58 pm
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,391
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