Club World: How do they get away with it?
Sep 4, 2018, 3:37 pm
#121
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,613
Came here because I need to choose between BA and VS+9W for my wife and I for our first flight in Business Class, going between SFO and BOM. This is meant to be a splurge.
Having read through the thread, I'm still not sure whether the backward facing "honeymoon seats" are a good or a bad thing?
And does booking through AA waive the early seat assignment fee? If not, I will pay it to get the seats we want.
Thanks.
Having read through the thread, I'm still not sure whether the backward facing "honeymoon seats" are a good or a bad thing?
And does booking through AA waive the early seat assignment fee? If not, I will pay it to get the seats we want.
Thanks.
Sep 4, 2018, 3:42 pm
#122
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Programs: Delta Silver Medallion, BA Executive Blue, IHG Platinum Elite,Kimpton.
Posts: 739
You don't mention how much you paid.
I'm not asking for that info, but I get UK to USA return for £1300 in CW. That's why they get my business.
If the other airlines matched it regularly, then quality would come into it more. I'm just happy with a flat bed (always a rear-facing window seat, or I'm not going) and I put my screen up and avoid the BO & coughing of others.
On a footnote, Virgin is normally between £2000 & £2800 for the same fare.
I'm not asking for that info, but I get UK to USA return for £1300 in CW. That's why they get my business.
If the other airlines matched it regularly, then quality would come into it more. I'm just happy with a flat bed (always a rear-facing window seat, or I'm not going) and I put my screen up and avoid the BO & coughing of others.
On a footnote, Virgin is normally between £2000 & £2800 for the same fare.
Sep 4, 2018, 3:46 pm
#123
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Interestingly, when a large package of LHR slots was on the market a few years back (its forthcoming availability having been obvious to all for a long time before that), BA ended up being the only serious contender for them. Where were all the competitors then who were so desperate to compete at LHR?
As I said, life is much more complicated.
Sep 4, 2018, 4:12 pm
#124
Join Date: Dec 2012
Programs: AA Plat Pro
Posts: 909
Fold up some paper and cram it in; to force it to stay up? Or bring some duct tape? I know I would only deal with it once.....thanks Boy Scouts...be prepared! Yes I realize we shouldn't have to but you described the reality of today's travel environment.
Sep 4, 2018, 4:29 pm
#125
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: LHR/ATH
Programs: Amex Platinum, LH SEN (Gold), BA Bronze
Posts: 4,489
No, this is not true either. The slot system, their scarcity and their price make it more difficult for airlines to grow at LHR than at airports that are not so slot-constrained. But slots do become available - just look at the new entrants that come to LHR all the time, including some on my list that have actually not yet started. And just as BA starts some services in competition with other airlines and then withdraws, so too some other airlines start routes in competition with BA and then withdraw. Saying that other airlines can't compete simply isn't true.And that makes BA dominant at LHR, which cannot be doubted. (But IIRC it is not as dominant as AF at CDG or LH at FRA, by proportion of slots.) But that is not a monopoly; there is still plenty of competition.
Interestingly, when a large package of LHR slots was on the market a few years back (its forthcoming availability having been obvious to all for a long time before that), BA ended up being the only serious contender for them. Where were all the competitors then who were so desperate to compete at LHR?
As I said, life is much more complicated.
Interestingly, when a large package of LHR slots was on the market a few years back (its forthcoming availability having been obvious to all for a long time before that), BA ended up being the only serious contender for them. Where were all the competitors then who were so desperate to compete at LHR?
As I said, life is much more complicated.
I want unlimited traffic in LHR, and that would require 4 runways. They should get rid of the cargo terminal and make some new terminals. Maybe get rid of a few of the hotels surrounding the airport as well? They are unnecessary.
Sep 4, 2018, 4:39 pm
#126
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold(twice), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 679
I thought it was probably worth doing this exercise again: For all Wikipedia's faults, its listings of airlines and direct destinations from any airport are usually pretty accurate. For the sake of simplicity, I've taken LHR alone and ignored planned route introductions and terminations (as there's a large element of swings and roundabouts in those). I've included seasonal routes for the same reasons. Cities with more than one airports are counted once, except for JFK/EWR. Joint venture partners are counted as separate airlines, because we're looking at seat products so (for example) AA's 77W business class seat does compete against BA's CW seat.
On this basis, LHR currently has 212 routes. Of these, BA has a monopoly on 68:-
1. Abuja.............
...........87. Zurich (2: British Airways, Swiss International Air Lines)
On this basis, LHR currently has 212 routes. Of these, BA has a monopoly on 68:-
1. Abuja.............
...........87. Zurich (2: British Airways, Swiss International Air Lines)
Sep 4, 2018, 4:40 pm
#127
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,592
Much discussed elsewhere. This is not quite the money grabbing exercise it appears to be, it's (at least in part) a way of ensuring the most loyal customers get preferred seats regardless of when they book. It works rather well. As a non-status pax I was able to travel 747 UD because I was prepared to pay and now as a status pax I can pick my preferred seats every time. Without this system the best seats would simply be snapped up for free on a first come, first served basis with no regard to customer loyalty.
If OP wants a J experience to New York, he can fly UA to EWR and not only probably pay less than on BA but get a seat assignment at the time of booking for no extra charge.
Sep 4, 2018, 5:18 pm
#128
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812
IMO this is a specious argument. (a) American-based airlines mostly do not charge for seat assignments, not even in economy, and you can select your seat at the time of booking. (b) Trying to save the best seats for the most loyal customers, even if they can't be bothered to book early enough to get them, is a typically BAEC mindset, and to my way of thinking rather incestuous. You want the best seats? Then book early enough to get them. It's the same as booking a seat in the theatre. First come, first served!
If OP wants a J experience to New York, he can fly UA to EWR and not only probably pay less than on BA but get a seat assignment at the time of booking for no extra charge.
If OP wants a J experience to New York, he can fly UA to EWR and not only probably pay less than on BA but get a seat assignment at the time of booking for no extra charge.
Some of the most expensive fares will be booked last
minute, should those paying the highest fares be excluded from the best seats as they didn’t know about a business meeting 300 days in advance, or that a relative would die?!
Most US airlines very much charge for the better seats in economy and even airlines lauded on here, like Swiss, charge for reserving the better seats in their J cabins.
You can reserve seats for free on BA, 24 hours pre departure, or pay if you want to be sure to sit where you want.
I loved the policy when I had a Silver card, less so now I don’t, it is what it is though, would I book another carrier due to it, everything else being equal? Yes. Things are rarely equal enough for it to be a decider though
Sep 4, 2018, 5:30 pm
#129
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 460
Any BA seat is better than any VS seat in my eyes, even if you sit apart.The VS lounge is hugely superior to the BA one though, if you have to change on VS but not on BA, then BA is the clear winner Id suggest.
There is no skipping the fees via AA. Personally I would go for a window/ aisle combo on BA if I were you, the 'honeymoon' seats aren't anywhere near as close as people make out, being able to look at your partner is a far more pleasurable experience.
There is no skipping the fees via AA. Personally I would go for a window/ aisle combo on BA if I were you, the 'honeymoon' seats aren't anywhere near as close as people make out, being able to look at your partner is a far more pleasurable experience.
And good to know about seat assignment fees since miles/points earned seem to be different when booked on BA vs AA. Made a booking on their website and the seat assignment fee is greater than $100 per segment!
I will have to check with my wife on this one
Certainly an option though EK wants USD1000 more than VS+9W at this time and USD500 more than BA after factoring in seat assignment fees
Last edited by unmesh; Sep 4, 2018 at 6:18 pm Reason: Additional information provided
Sep 5, 2018, 1:51 am
#131
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
That's a fabulous way of treating your best customers worst. It can only be seriously said with all the smugness of someone whose travel needs extend no further than holidays planned and booked months in advance.
Sep 5, 2018, 2:19 am
#132
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK
Programs: BA Exec Club Bronze, Hilton Diamond, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 1,257
They get away with it because the cash cow North Atlantic routes have so little competition that they can do.
There are effectively only 3 airlines operating the North Atlantic from LHR, none except VS offer a service which is much different to CW.
Airline 1: BA/AA/IB/AY/EI
Airline 2: VS/DL plus Skyteam
Airline 3: UA/AC plus Star.
There are effectively only 3 airlines operating the North Atlantic from LHR, none except VS offer a service which is much different to CW.
Airline 1: BA/AA/IB/AY/EI
Airline 2: VS/DL plus Skyteam
Airline 3: UA/AC plus Star.
Sep 5, 2018, 2:35 am
#133
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London / Brighton
Programs: BAEC Gold / M-Life Gold / HH Diamond
Posts: 1,634
I think its a matter of BA knows their customers well, and can generally get away with 'murder'. The planes are full, so BA feels they are doing fine. When they feel they are struggling a bit too much, they do change a bit, such as the Club World seats as people are mentioning.
I wouldn't rate BA a bad airline, more of an average one. Skytrax 3 stars would sound about right.
I wouldn't rate BA a bad airline, more of an average one. Skytrax 3 stars would sound about right.
As for Skytrax, BA are a four star airline, same as Virgin Atlantic, Air France, Finnair, Emirates,, KLM, Qantas, Thai, Air Canada, Air New Zealand etc., and better than all the NA airlines which only have three stars.
Sep 5, 2018, 3:01 am
#135
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,179
I simply do not understand what if people are so dissatisfied they continue to fly with them and conclude that they have no choice in the matter.
We must however concede that this is not the real world that most people inhabit. I do not know a single person, outside of this Forum, who flies to collect Tier Points or Miles and deliberately includes extra flights in order to do so. Most people would consider it insane to travel to a further point (AMS, DUB, INV - or God Help us OTP ( Why is it Bucharest OTP? Is is the name of the airport as in ORY, CDG, FCO, LIN etc? ) in order to get the fare cheaper when it involves extra travel, night stops, B2Bs and the like. We know that we can save a fortune - whether this survives post Brexit is of course a matter for conjecture - but for now this is the case. All of this is for what? To sit in a Lounge about which I complain ? To sit on an aircraft in a seat that others cannot book? To get on the plane before everyone else? To many people it would seem ridiculous to spend all this money in pursuit of this nirvana. Please I am not criticising, I am merely trying to recognising that our views and our opinions may be terribly distorted at times.
People have bad experiences on all airlines - this is clear from this entire Board. That BA has to up its game is beyond question. However, most people as evidenced by the sheer number of bottoms filling seats and that fact that the yields do not look bad from what I have seen, I must conclude that either these people's expectations are low and thus easily fulfilled, ordo not feel prepared to give themselves the fuss of making changes, or ours are more exacting,
To return to where this started, this is a British carrier and there is a person aboard soley to deal with service issues. Try getting a service issue sorted on a US carrier where no one is in charge and see how far that gets you.