Club World: How do they get away with it?
Sep 4, 2018, 4:54 am
#61
Join Date: May 2014
Location: BRU
Programs: BA GGL, TK E (*G), ITA exec
Posts: 4,105
I don't know how to explain it clearly, but I don't know if it would have worked; the problem seemed to be the "engine": once the blind was halfway up, it moved back to bring the blind down again.
Sep 4, 2018, 4:58 am
#62
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
Yes, no one books CW out of their own will; and I can only imagine how fully booked carriers like DL and AA must be if they are shrinking their business class cabins...
Sep 4, 2018, 4:59 am
#63
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
To me CW = the best Premier Economy class in the world.
Sep 4, 2018, 5:19 am
#64
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,541
By all means do send us the list of other premium economy products with fully flat beds, and the type of catering the new CW offers.
i do not hesitate to criticise CW, often harshly, but with respect, calling it premium economy is just silly.
i do not hesitate to criticise CW, often harshly, but with respect, calling it premium economy is just silly.
Sep 4, 2018, 5:29 am
#65
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 10,157
Any J seat/flatbed compared to a PE one is a huge difference right across the board whatever airline it is. That's the big step up I'd say whether it's Virgin, BA, CX, QF, AA etc.
Sep 4, 2018, 5:34 am
#66
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,144
BA has a large proportion of LHR slots but there is only a handful of routes where BA does not face competition. I am surprised how hard some find it to look past their own preferences and to accept that maybe no one is forced to fly BA but that people simply find CW acceptable or they like it or they don't care that it is 20 years old. Not everyone is preoccupied with a particular seat design so there is nothing to get away with. Let's just assume that since everyone who hates CW stopped flying it (as they said they would), those who are flying CW these days actually want to do it for one reason or another, and there is no point in trying to figure out why they do it.
Sep 4, 2018, 5:42 am
#67
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold / OW Emerald
Posts: 753
Let me give you my perspective then. I've just flown on the 747 UD with some decent seats, and while this may be a bit of an ideal scenario, I would do it again.
I'm going to hit at least Silver every year with 50 segments, and since I'm gonna fly that much, Gold is a nice plus when the money is available. And, if I want to hit Gold, I upgrade the long-haul flights that I would do anyway to Club. My estimate is that most of the money it costs me to upgrade (I do ex-EU trips, mostly) I get back down the line in Avios or benefits. (Yes I calculate all that in a spreadsheet)
I also just like flying in itself, as all my travel is leisure, so paying 300 quid more for a nice convoluted ex-EU trip to my destination in Club is a lot more fun than compared to taking a direct flight in Economy.
I'd consider other airlines but for my destinations they are almost always much more expensive (except for AA, which I haven't tried, but to be fair, I'm not sure I'd prefer either). Remember, I'm paying the equivalent of a few hundred to upgrade a long haul flight so I can have some good sleep and some space to myself, I don't want to pay double that to fly in a slightly better Business class.
I'm going to hit at least Silver every year with 50 segments, and since I'm gonna fly that much, Gold is a nice plus when the money is available. And, if I want to hit Gold, I upgrade the long-haul flights that I would do anyway to Club. My estimate is that most of the money it costs me to upgrade (I do ex-EU trips, mostly) I get back down the line in Avios or benefits. (Yes I calculate all that in a spreadsheet)
I also just like flying in itself, as all my travel is leisure, so paying 300 quid more for a nice convoluted ex-EU trip to my destination in Club is a lot more fun than compared to taking a direct flight in Economy.
I'd consider other airlines but for my destinations they are almost always much more expensive (except for AA, which I haven't tried, but to be fair, I'm not sure I'd prefer either). Remember, I'm paying the equivalent of a few hundred to upgrade a long haul flight so I can have some good sleep and some space to myself, I don't want to pay double that to fly in a slightly better Business class.
Last edited by thebigben; Sep 4, 2018 at 6:01 am
Sep 4, 2018, 5:48 am
#68
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
With due respect, next time when you pay £999 for AMS-BKK return or £1299 INV-ORD return in CW, just remember the price is not far away from normal Premier Economy fares. Of course I did not mean literally CW is a PE. No one would believe in that. But, I am sure people all agree that BA's CW product can be bought at the PE fare level.
Sep 4, 2018, 5:52 am
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
In the cases in which the person who is serially whingeing about CW is the person who is serially paying for the CW they're whingeing about, they either need their head examining or they need to be more intellectually honest about why they've picked CW so many times.
Sep 4, 2018, 5:54 am
#70
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Windsor
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 909
I thought it was probably worth doing this exercise again: For all Wikipedia's faults, its listings of airlines and direct destinations from any airport are usually pretty accurate. For the sake of simplicity, I've taken LHR alone and ignored planned route introductions and terminations (as there's a large element of swings and roundabouts in those). I've included seasonal routes for the same reasons. Cities with more than one airports are counted once, except for JFK/EWR. Joint venture partners are counted as separate airlines, because we're looking at seat products so (for example) AA's 77W business class seat does compete against BA's CW seat.
On a further 57 routes, other airlines have a monopoly on the route:-
On a further 57 routes, other airlines have a monopoly on the route:-
Sep 4, 2018, 5:56 am
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
This doesn't matter when the complaint is about BA's seat. There is, for example, competition between BA and AA on this: if you don't like BA's seat, you can choose AA's seat instead. BA's seat is not in a monopoly position if there is an AA alternative, which is the topic at hand.
Sep 4, 2018, 6:02 am
#72
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Windsor
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 909
This doesn't matter when the complaint is about BA's seat. There is, for example, competition between BA and AA on this: if you don't like BA's seat, you can choose AA's seat instead. BA's seat is not in a monopoly position if there is an AA alternative, which is the topic at hand.
Sep 4, 2018, 6:04 am
#73
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,180
With due respect, next time when you pay £999 for AMS-BKK return or £1299 INV-ORD return in CW, just remember the price is not far away from normal Premier Economy fares. Of course I did not mean literally CW is a PE. No one would believe in that. But, I am sure people all agree that BA's CW product can be bought at the PE fare level.
As for the getting away with - I think that has been answered by those who know far more than me.
Sep 4, 2018, 6:09 am
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
When there is revenue sharing, for example on a US route, BA doesn't particularly care if you're on their flights or an AA flight. They still share the revenue. So if BA+AA have a monopoly, or even a very high share of the flights, on a route there isn't really an incentive for BA to do anything about the CW hard product.
Sep 4, 2018, 6:10 am
#75
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691