Next USA city?
Aug 23, 2018, 11:58 am
#121
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Birmingham New Street
Programs: ASLEF
Posts: 266
Aug 23, 2018, 3:08 pm
#122
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
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Aug 23, 2018, 3:57 pm
#123
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SFO, LON
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, Bonvoy Tit, Hilton Dia etc etc
Posts: 2,354
We could discuss if AirTran-->LIRR is more painful or not that EWR options. Not much different to me and JFK gives me the option of subways which can drop me much closer to other destinations (midtown, Tribeca etc etc). But when all is said and done, the people who matter in the NYC market, who pay big bucks for premium seats, they aren't catching a train to Penn. Like it, hate it, think them selfish for booking a limo, think them smart or stupid, they want to fly to JFK and get in a car. That fact is well established. And once you drop your slots there, getting them back is going to be a royal pain, so no matter how nice the folks are at EWR (and I do agree with you it can be a pleasure of an airport in many ways) switching is simply not going to happen IMO.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:15 am
#124
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: BAEC GGL
Posts: 261
There’s a lot of point to EWR and hence why flights are almost always busy. It’s actually a much better option for public transport into NYC. 20 mins on the NJ transit and you’re at Penn Station. JFK is a real pain in comparison if you’re heading into Manhattan. Also serves a broad New Jersey market which is mostly covered by the Northern areas but throughout the state as well.
I’ve always thought BA cut a flight or two to JFK and add it to EWR actually. Friendliest staff you’ll meet on the East Coast too working there
I’ve always thought BA cut a flight or two to JFK and add it to EWR actually. Friendliest staff you’ll meet on the East Coast too working there
It just strikes me as strange having EWR given that JFK is such a major destination for BA with so much ground infrastructure in place in terms of lounges etc (and PHL isn't super far from the New Jersey market either). If anything surely it'd make sense to align EWR<>LGW and JFK<>LHR. Not suggesting it should or will happen, more just illustrating that some routes make no sense to those not in 'the know' about their background.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:21 am
#125
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: BAEC GGL
Posts: 261
Aug 24, 2018, 3:30 am
#126
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Aug 24, 2018, 6:29 am
#127
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Flatland
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold 1MM, BA Gold, UA Peon
Posts: 6,111
Luckily UA put it to the test and figured out what a mistake it was to pull out of JFK. Over 10% loss of traffic in the NYC market and more importantly loss of significant, historical price insensitive corporate contracts which have had a knock on impact.
But when all is said and done, the people who matter in the NYC market, who pay big bucks for premium seats, they aren't catching a train to Penn. Like it, hate it, think them selfish for booking a limo, think them smart or stupid, they want to fly to JFK and get in a car. That fact is well established.
But when all is said and done, the people who matter in the NYC market, who pay big bucks for premium seats, they aren't catching a train to Penn. Like it, hate it, think them selfish for booking a limo, think them smart or stupid, they want to fly to JFK and get in a car. That fact is well established.
It's a complete aversion, and it won't change soon, it's very deeply embedded. As soon as you provide a non-bus, non-train way to get somewhere then middle class Americans will start to use it in preference. Not just will they change airline to avoid the train to the other airport, they will also get a cheap taxi ("rideshare") rather than ride the subway (a significant proportion of Uber/Lyft usage in metro areas is displaced public transport usage, not journeys that would not have happened without the cheap taxi).
Aug 24, 2018, 6:39 am
#128
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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It is difficult to over-state the aversion of middle-class and upper-class Americans towards any sort of shared transport. It's a multi-faceted and comprehensive aversion: they don't want to be on trains with people they don't know, they don't want to risk being near anyone they find unpleasant, they want a lot of personal space, they think it is demeaning to their social status to use public transport, they fear attack, they don't want to think about schedules, they don't want to walk or carry anything a long distance, they think it's uncomfortable, and so on.
It's a complete aversion, and it won't change soon, it's very deeply embedded. As soon as you provide a non-bus, non-train way to get somewhere then middle class Americans will start to use it in preference. Not just will they change airline to avoid the train to the other airport, they will also get a cheap taxi ("rideshare") rather than ride the subway (a significant proportion of Uber/Lyft usage in metro areas is displaced public transport usage, not journeys that would not have happened without the cheap taxi).
It's a complete aversion, and it won't change soon, it's very deeply embedded. As soon as you provide a non-bus, non-train way to get somewhere then middle class Americans will start to use it in preference. Not just will they change airline to avoid the train to the other airport, they will also get a cheap taxi ("rideshare") rather than ride the subway (a significant proportion of Uber/Lyft usage in metro areas is displaced public transport usage, not journeys that would not have happened without the cheap taxi).
Aug 24, 2018, 6:44 am
#129
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LHR/SEA/YVR
Programs: BAEC G/*O E
Posts: 920
Let's see, are we okay to open domestic UK market of around 30M passengers/year in exchange for access to 700M/year US domestic. Thank you, but no, thank you - I am sure English folk would agree (they wouldn't have voted for Brexit otherwise).
Aug 24, 2018, 6:57 am
#130
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,771
to be fair, most of my nyc friends and family (and I have many) use public transport - including both subway and trains - including to go to New Jersey and Pennsylvania. They are almost all middle class and some upper middle class. Many of my Bay Area are just the same. In Houston though, none would and I’d be considered a nutter for taking the bus, but I think the New York and bay areas (and arguably Boston and DC) are exceptions of sorts.
Aug 24, 2018, 8:45 am
#131
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I know. In case that was not obvious, my point was in gentle jest to point out that QF is allowed some domestic US cabotage because airlines like UK are reciprocally allowed the same cabotage on SYD-MEL. (In fairness, neither allows domestic marketing rights, and I doubt that this would be allowed on xxx-HNL for BA either which makes the route all the less realistic).
Aug 24, 2018, 12:20 pm
#132
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
The DOT recently fined QF about $125k for ferrying some passengers from JFK via LAX onto a QF codeshare to Tahiti instead of a real QF flight.
BA has rights to do this, but you have to ask, is a good use of their equipment? Especially when they could just codeshare with AA?
Aug 24, 2018, 12:25 pm
#133
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LHR/SEA/YVR
Programs: BAEC G/*O E
Posts: 920
Yes, in case it was not obvious, mine was a bit of a bitter sarcasm. I am sure that if a proposal of that sort comes from the US, nigel farages of the world will be immidiately up there utterly disgusted with a mere prosect of ungodly yanks invading sacred British skies. Oh well.
Aug 24, 2018, 12:35 pm
#134
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Yes, in case it was not obvious, mine was a bit of a bitter sarcasm. I am sure that if a proposal of that sort comes from the US, nigel farages of the world will be immidiately up there utterly disgusted with a mere prosect of ungodly yanks invading sacred British skies. Oh well.
Aug 24, 2018, 3:12 pm
#135
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: BA Gold, AA PLT PRO, AGR, Strawberry (Nordic Choice), Marriott Bonvoy
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https://www.businesstraveller.com/fo...-brussels-bru/