Next USA city?

Old Aug 23, 18, 11:58 am
  #121  
 
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Originally Posted by TedToToe View Post
I believe CMH (Columbus, Ohio) is keen to attract a TATL service. It would seem a good fit for BA, a growing city with lots of businesses.
It would certainly make travelling to the new BrewDog brewery a bit easier.
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Old Aug 23, 18, 3:08 pm
  #122  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Incidentally, Anchorage is 150 miles nearer to London than New Orleans.
GIB is 700 miles closer to MAD than LON, but there seems to be an absence of any routes there.
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Old Aug 23, 18, 3:57 pm
  #123  
 
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Originally Posted by Brisbane Road View Post
Iíve always thought BA cut a flight or two to JFK and add it to EWR actually. Friendliest staff youíll meet on the East Coast too working there
Folks from the western parts of the area are always saying this. Luckily UA put it to the test and figured out what a mistake it was to pull out of JFK. Over 10% loss of traffic in the NYC market and more importantly loss of significant, historical price insensitive corporate contracts which have had a knock on impact. If Disney folks flew UA from LAX to JFK, they also would fly UA LAX-LHR.; now they are on AA/BA. Go figure.

We could discuss if AirTran-->LIRR is more painful or not that EWR options. Not much different to me and JFK gives me the option of subways which can drop me much closer to other destinations (midtown, Tribeca etc etc). But when all is said and done, the people who matter in the NYC market, who pay big bucks for premium seats, they aren't catching a train to Penn. Like it, hate it, think them selfish for booking a limo, think them smart or stupid, they want to fly to JFK and get in a car. That fact is well established. And once you drop your slots there, getting them back is going to be a royal pain, so no matter how nice the folks are at EWR (and I do agree with you it can be a pleasure of an airport in many ways) switching is simply not going to happen IMO.
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Old Aug 24, 18, 2:15 am
  #124  
 
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Originally Posted by Brisbane Road View Post
Thereís a lot of point to EWR and hence why flights are almost always busy. Itís actually a much better option for public transport into NYC. 20 mins on the NJ transit and youíre at Penn Station. JFK is a real pain in comparison if youíre heading into Manhattan. Also serves a broad New Jersey market which is mostly covered by the Northern areas but throughout the state as well.

Iíve always thought BA cut a flight or two to JFK and add it to EWR actually. Friendliest staff youíll meet on the East Coast too working there
Well, Jamaica to Penn station on LIRR is actually about 5 minutes quicker station to station than Newark to Penn but I'll acknowledge that time savings by avoiding JFK AirTrain probably equal that out at least. My perception is JFK is a little cheaper on taxi fares.

It just strikes me as strange having EWR given that JFK is such a major destination for BA with so much ground infrastructure in place in terms of lounges etc (and PHL isn't super far from the New Jersey market either). If anything surely it'd make sense to align EWR<>LGW and JFK<>LHR. Not suggesting it should or will happen, more just illustrating that some routes make no sense to those not in 'the know' about their background.
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Old Aug 24, 18, 2:21 am
  #125  
 
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Originally Posted by Jagboi View Post
The implication I got was the US would consider LHR-HNL with a tech stop in ANC a domestic route.
Wouldn't that be possible as an 8th freedom flight however in the same category as QF11 (SYD>LAX>JFK)?
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Old Aug 24, 18, 3:30 am
  #126  
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Originally Posted by apollo00 View Post
Wouldn't that be possible as an 8th freedom flight however in the same category as QF11 (SYD>LAX>JFK)?
Are we happy to offer US airlines the right to operate LHR-EDI/GLA in return?
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Old Aug 24, 18, 6:29 am
  #127  
 
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Originally Posted by MarkedMan View Post
Luckily UA put it to the test and figured out what a mistake it was to pull out of JFK. Over 10% loss of traffic in the NYC market and more importantly loss of significant, historical price insensitive corporate contracts which have had a knock on impact.

But when all is said and done, the people who matter in the NYC market, who pay big bucks for premium seats, they aren't catching a train to Penn. Like it, hate it, think them selfish for booking a limo, think them smart or stupid, they want to fly to JFK and get in a car. That fact is well established.
Originally Posted by apollo00 View Post
Well, Jamaica to Penn station on LIRR is actually about 5 minutes quicker station to station than Newark to Penn but I'll acknowledge that time savings by avoiding JFK AirTrain probably equal that out at least. My perception is JFK is a little cheaper on taxi fares.
It is difficult to over-state the aversion of middle-class and upper-class Americans towards any sort of shared transport. It's a multi-faceted and comprehensive aversion: they don't want to be on trains with people they don't know, they don't want to risk being near anyone they find unpleasant, they want a lot of personal space, they think it is demeaning to their social status to use public transport, they fear attack, they don't want to think about schedules, they don't want to walk or carry anything a long distance, they think it's uncomfortable, and so on.

It's a complete aversion, and it won't change soon, it's very deeply embedded. As soon as you provide a non-bus, non-train way to get somewhere then middle class Americans will start to use it in preference. Not just will they change airline to avoid the train to the other airport, they will also get a cheap taxi ("rideshare") rather than ride the subway (a significant proportion of Uber/Lyft usage in metro areas is displaced public transport usage, not journeys that would not have happened without the cheap taxi).
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Old Aug 24, 18, 6:39 am
  #128  
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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
It is difficult to over-state the aversion of middle-class and upper-class Americans towards any sort of shared transport. It's a multi-faceted and comprehensive aversion: they don't want to be on trains with people they don't know, they don't want to risk being near anyone they find unpleasant, they want a lot of personal space, they think it is demeaning to their social status to use public transport, they fear attack, they don't want to think about schedules, they don't want to walk or carry anything a long distance, they think it's uncomfortable, and so on.

It's a complete aversion, and it won't change soon, it's very deeply embedded. As soon as you provide a non-bus, non-train way to get somewhere then middle class Americans will start to use it in preference. Not just will they change airline to avoid the train to the other airport, they will also get a cheap taxi ("rideshare") rather than ride the subway (a significant proportion of Uber/Lyft usage in metro areas is displaced public transport usage, not journeys that would not have happened without the cheap taxi).
to be fair, most of my nyc friends and family (and I have many) use public transport - including both subway and trains - including to go to New Jersey and Pennsylvania. They are almost all middle class and some upper middle class. Many of my Bay Area are just the same. In Houston though, none would and Iíd be considered a nutter for taking the bus, but I think the New York and bay areas (and arguably Boston and DC) are exceptions of sorts.
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Old Aug 24, 18, 6:44 am
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
Are we happy to offer US airlines the right to operate LHR-EDI/GLA in return?
Let's see, are we okay to open domestic UK market of around 30M passengers/year in exchange for access to 700M/year US domestic. Thank you, but no, thank you - I am sure English folk would agree (they wouldn't have voted for Brexit otherwise).
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Old Aug 24, 18, 6:57 am
  #130  
 
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post


to be fair, most of my nyc friends and family (and I have many) use public transport - including both subway and trains - including to go to New Jersey and Pennsylvania. They are almost all middle class and some upper middle class. Many of my Bay Area are just the same. In Houston though, none would and Iíd be considered a nutter for taking the bus, but I think the New York and bay areas (and arguably Boston and DC) are exceptions of sorts.
Agreed. Also the point about Uber Iím sure applies to London too. Uberís success is not so much that it has taken business from the black cabs (it has of course) but more importantly that it has made taking a cab affordable enough that people now do so where previously they wouldíve used public transport, driven themselves, or indeed not made the trip at that time or even at all.
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Old Aug 24, 18, 8:45 am
  #131  
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Originally Posted by luitje View Post

Let's see, are we okay to open domestic UK market of around 30M passengers/year in exchange for access to 700M/year US domestic. Thank you, but no, thank you - I am sure English folk would agree (they wouldn't have voted for Brexit otherwise).
I know. In case that was not obvious, my point was in gentle jest to point out that QF is allowed some domestic US cabotage because airlines like UK are reciprocally allowed the same cabotage on SYD-MEL. (In fairness, neither allows domestic marketing rights, and I doubt that this would be allowed on xxx-HNL for BA either which makes the route all the less realistic).
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Old Aug 24, 18, 12:20 pm
  #132  
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Originally Posted by apollo00 View Post
Wouldn't that be possible as an 8th freedom flight however in the same category as QF11 (SYD>LAX>JFK)?
QF has no right to carry passengers between LAX-JFK and JFK-LAX except as part of an international ticket originating or finishing in Australia and only consisting of QF metal.

The DOT recently fined QF about $125k for ferrying some passengers from JFK via LAX onto a QF codeshare to Tahiti instead of a real QF flight.

BA has rights to do this, but you have to ask, is a good use of their equipment? Especially when they could just codeshare with AA?
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Old Aug 24, 18, 12:25 pm
  #133  
 
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
I know. In case that was not obvious, my point was in gentle jest
Yes, in case it was not obvious, mine was a bit of a bitter sarcasm. I am sure that if a proposal of that sort comes from the US, nigel farages of the world will be immidiately up there utterly disgusted with a mere prosect of ungodly yanks invading sacred British skies. Oh well.
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Old Aug 24, 18, 12:35 pm
  #134  
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Originally Posted by luitje View Post
Yes, in case it was not obvious, mine was a bit of a bitter sarcasm. I am sure that if a proposal of that sort comes from the US, nigel farages of the world will be immidiately up there utterly disgusted with a mere prosect of ungodly yanks invading sacred British skies. Oh well.
US airlines may already make multiple stops in the EU (including within one member state) as part of a flight that also serves the United States.
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Old Aug 24, 18, 3:12 pm
  #135  
 
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Originally Posted by Calchas View Post
US airlines may already make multiple stops in the EU (including within one member state) as part of a flight that also serves the United States.
For a short while a few years ago AA had BRU-LHR which could be bought as a stand-alone ticket. LATAM still has MAD-FRA (or is it BCN-FRA, canít remember exactly?)

https://www.businesstraveller.com/fo...-brussels-bru/

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