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Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

Would you turn down a really good job if the travel policy was all Y?

Old Aug 24, 18, 6:12 am
  #331  
 
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Originally Posted by YacozA View Post
Suspect I am sitting just a couple floors below you
Only if you're a receptionist
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Old Aug 25, 18, 7:30 pm
  #332  
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Originally Posted by YacozA View Post
Suspect I am sitting just a couple floors below you.

Any ideas if J > F would be acceptable to HMRC? or is that using the term "Public Transport" too loosely?
Scale of expenditure
5.12
The cost of business travel will not normally have any bearing on whether or not tax relief is available. For example, we would not seek to disallow first class rail travel on the grounds that only standard class was necessary for a journey.
5.13
Where the travel arrangements are unusually lavish, we will consider whether, on the facts of the case, the expenditure is really due to business travel, or is, for example, some sort of reward, or part of their normal remuneration. However, we will not seek to deny tax relief for the cost of a journey, hotel room or meal simply because a less expensive alternative is available.
Although some of us here might make a clear distinction between first and business, I suspect no one at HMRC would know that one is more lavish than the other, or that Qatar J is more lavish* than BA F.

If you chartered your own plane, that might become a different matter.

* Not really
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Old Aug 31, 18, 8:42 am
  #333  
 
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I may be too late to help the OP with their decision making process, but I feel compelled to tell my story:

I used to work for a company that allowed us to book economy for short haul and business for long haul. Then I changed jobs and my current employer allows Y only, for any and all flights, regardless of distance or duration. I did not think it would be a big deal; I figured I'd use my status to achieve upgrades for the long hauls.

I figured wrong.

Having done about a dozen long haul fights in Y since joining my new employer, it is absolutely killing me. And yes, to be fair there was a bit of "Flowers for Algernon" at first, but now it's become a bonafide health issue.

So, if I were in a situation wherein a new job opportunity was in front of me and I knew it would require a lot of long haul travel in Y, I would definitely negotiate some kind of exception or allowance, and if I was not successful I might have turn it down.
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Old Aug 31, 18, 3:20 pm
  #334  
 
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Out of interest, how many here book their own travel and then get reimbursed, as opposed to your company/ corporate travel agency booking directly? (For the CC points )

And any insights on what kind of travel one might expect as a first-year analyst in M&A/ bulge-bracket IB research/ buy or sell-side research firms? Is there also a lot of travel if you want it?
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Old Aug 31, 18, 3:31 pm
  #335  
 
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Booking myself?

It has varied.

Previous company incarnation had a travel system ... so no points for flights ... but hotels were rarely prepaid so i picked up a bit there.

Then we were discovering the BA holiday deals ... and the company let us book those and claim back.

New company is all self paid up until the last year because then I was viewed as the biggest travel spender in the company and was given a company CC to help with currency conversion costs.
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Old Aug 31, 18, 3:47 pm
  #336  
 
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Originally Posted by xjk1 View Post
Out of interest, how many here book their own travel and then get reimbursed, as opposed to your company/ corporate travel agency booking directly? (For the CC points )

And any insights on what kind of travel one might expect as a first-year analyst in M&A/ bulge-bracket IB research/ buy or sell-side research firms? Is there also a lot of travel if you want it?
I started out as a first year in M&A at a bulge-bracket, and I barely made Silver in my first year (you are practically chained to your desk churning out powerpoint presentations and excel models). My boss (MD) made Gold, but nothing more. In equity research you would travel a bit more, but as a first year I wouldn't count on it.
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Old Aug 31, 18, 3:48 pm
  #337  
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Originally Posted by xjk1 View Post
And any insights on what kind of travel one might expect as a first-year analyst in M&A/ bulge-bracket IB research/ buy or sell-side research firms? Is there also a lot of travel if you want it?
"Bulge bracket" covers a few different banks and probably hundreds of thousands of analysts doing all sorts of different work, but where I work the graduate programme is centrally structured. Aside from the integration trip to the corporate HQ, I don't hear about analysts travelling internationally.

Originally Posted by xjk1 View Post
Out of interest, how many here book their own travel and then get reimbursed, as opposed to your company/ corporate travel agency booking directly? (For the CC points )
Spending is supposed to be done on the corporate card, other reimbursements over a certain limit have to be signed off by people who don't like extra paperwork and may forget about it. We also have a few enormous discounts not available to the general public, I assume they cannot be booked except through the proper channels. Anyone of moderate seniority will have someone who arranges travel for them anyway.
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Old Aug 31, 18, 4:00 pm
  #338  
 
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Originally Posted by Calchas View Post
"Bulge bracket" covers a few different banks and probably hundreds of thousands of analysts doing all sorts of different work, but where I work the graduate programme is centrally structured. Aside from the integration trip to the corporate HQ, I don't hear about analysts travelling internationally.

Spending is supposed to be done on the corporate card, other reimbursements over a certain limit have to be signed off by people who don't like extra paperwork and may forget about it. We also have a few enormous discounts not available to the general public, I assume they cannot be booked except through the proper channels. Anyone of moderate seniority will have someone who arranges travel for them anyway.
Originally Posted by Killian_S View Post
I started out as a first year in M&A at a bulge-bracket, and I barely made Silver in my first year (you are practically chained to your desk churning out powerpoint presentations and excel models). My boss (MD) made Gold, but nothing more. In equity research you would travel a bit more, but as a first year I wouldn't count on it.
Thanks! So I presume the 20 something GGL's are all in consulting? Previously I was under the impression that it was consultants, as well as young M&A bankers that travelled (in M&A, structuring deals with clients all over) (and that degree of travel actually decreased with seniority, because of family commitments etc and lack of will to spend so much time in planes/hotels).

And by "bulge bracket" I just meant a very general way of generalising UBS, Goldman, Citi, Morgan Stanley etc etc

If work travel is something that you want to have (even in your first years) are there any particular banks, or specific functions within them that seem to have allow more of it?

Thanks again for the insights.
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Old Aug 31, 18, 4:02 pm
  #339  
 
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Originally Posted by MPH1980 View Post
Booking myself?

It has varied.

Previous company incarnation had a travel system ... so no points for flights ... but hotels were rarely prepaid so i picked up a bit there.

Then we were discovering the BA holiday deals ... and the company let us book those and claim back.

New company is all self paid up until the last year because then I was viewed as the biggest travel spender in the company and was given a company CC to help with currency conversion costs.
Thanks, interesting. And do corporate cards accumulate points too (and do you benefit from them?)
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Old Aug 31, 18, 4:22 pm
  #340  
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Originally Posted by xjk1 View Post
Thanks! So I presume the 20 something GGL's are all in consulting?
I think there's more to the world than the two possibilities of M&A deals and consulting.

Originally Posted by xjk1 View Post
(and that degree of travel actually decreased with seniority, because of family commitments etc and lack of will to spend so much time in planes/hotels).
My experience of the finance sector is not very broad, and maybe the M&A folks do things differently to the other pieces of the business, but that is precisely the opposite of what I observe.
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Old Aug 31, 18, 8:08 pm
  #341  
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I've not read the full thread on this... however, my two pence for what its worth is that Y travel is painful and the long haul flight hours build up real quick. I have gone from an employer which paid for the cheapest ever possible flight (non-direct or direct) in Y no matter the length of the journey. Mainly the Middle East etc. I am now with an employer which if the flight is over 6 hours then we get PE travel. This is all booked by the employee, so I get the miles, status, points from the Credit Card and also access to upgrade and change my flights if I wished. This is then all submitted through an expense SAAS system and paid back the next week (Thankfully).

Having gone from Y travel to the majority of PE travel, I would now not fly anything less than PE whether business of leisure. So I would certainly not drop down to Y travel for a job, UNLESS the increase in pay justified and allowed me to upgrade etc and still have a raise on my old/current salary.

I do have one quick question though regards the interesting article on HFP - on tax relief for upgrades etc. Is this for Self Employed only? Or is Employed by a company allowed to claim this relief? My Permanent place of work is London, however, I am travelling a lot to our HQ in San Francisco to conduct and manage projects and also meeting etc. Would I be able to claim tax relief for the upgrade from PE to J as this is business travel and being in J would allow me to work during the flight and also arrive available to work on arrival?
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Old Nov 12, 19, 8:29 am
  #342  
 
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Originally Posted by flying_pig View Post
A rather miserable way of viewing life and work (I mean no personal offence). Sometimes I wonder how widespread this way of thinking is... Certain companies seem to be holding their employees ransom under the implicit threat of termination, which is further aggravated by the culture of debt typical of certain nations (ahem, shall we start with North America?).

There are plenty of companies out there that do not see employees as promptly replaceable, and plenty of Executives who do not share this perspective. I would never, ever want my team - at any level - to work under a similar culture. I don't see how depriving staff of sleep and rest, or even worse forcing them to sacrifice their family life, would ever lead to positive outcomes for the business in the long term. And, yes, I do consider them REALLY valuable.

For full disclosure, this is the managerial point of view of a large global company. I really wish people would stop thinking that perspectives like the one above are normal, or that they are "SOP". It is thankfully untrue.
No offense taken. Unfortunately my experience is that it is not an uncommon view in the US. I work for a global company but each business unit is responsible for market earnings, hence the travel attitude described above. That being said, I do not force my own team to fly over weekends, but the Y class policy is the policy.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 9:02 am
  #343  
 
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Working in the education sector, discounted Y travel is very common. I have turned down roles with lots of Y travel, despite really enjoying the work. I have a back issue and went through the hoops of MRI scans and occupational health etc. following some very uncomfortable long trips in Y. Now it’s J or I don’t go. In my last job, after a few J trips senior management told my boss to send junior staff on trips instead. They couldn’t see beyond the cost of the flight itself, and clearly did not value my work in the field enough, so I moved on.

Policies do vary between institutions and by seniority. In my current workplace travel policy is a bit unclear, but again I have J or don’t go. I was upfront right from the start about my back issue, and had a call once I’d completed the health assessment form after the offer was made. I deliberately chose a role without necessary regular travel, and if they do decide they don’t want me to fly J, there are other ways I can be impactful in my role.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 9:52 am
  #344  
 
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Since this thread is open again, I thought I would add my bit...

I currently work for a company where I find the travel policy slightly discriminatory (although, I suspect this is not rare). We have to fly economy except if the flight is over 10 hours, in which case we get to fly premium economy (business if no PE is available). If you are on the executive team, you are allowed to fly business class if the flight is over 6 hours. Some are more equal than others... it's not like us plebs need to be rested when we get to our destinations in order to function.

But in addition to this, I have spoken to several colleagues who keep flying economy despite being allowed to fly PE as per policy - this is mostly a cost thing I suspect, which is silly, because if they only looked at how much the execs are spending, they would not care so much! I have also done it though, flying out to make sure I include a Saturday night stay in the US to reduce costs (handy excuse to spend a few more days on the company!).

Our policy also requires us to use our company cards and Egencia to book flights, so apart from the points earnings on the flights, not much else we get to earn. (And Egencia is quite inflexible when you try and upgrade the flights with cash / Avios in some instances - however, I managed to get an upgrade on my upcoming trip, although it's only to Barcelona...).

I would like to think that if I were to take another job which required some travel, I would want their travel policy to allow for at least premium economy on flights over 6 hours and business on flights over 10.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 10:07 am
  #345  
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The policy is not discriminatory. It simply provides better perks for more senior people. Larger compensation packages, larger office, perhaps company car, and then J travel.

As noted in #343 , if there is a lot of long-haul travel and comfort matters, then it is great to be in a position where one can either negotiate for F/J travel or have the ability to move on if it is not a part of the package.
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