I Think I may Have Had It With BA
#46
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
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I really don’t know whether your speculative percentage here is right or wrong. But I guess it can’t be too far off the mark, so let’s go with it. That said, I do feel that your reference to some sort of ‘Flyertalk phenomenon’ is something of a distraction, when essentially it’s all about good customer service - a matter that has, rightly, occupied the attention and interest of consumers long before the days of FT.
The very fact that maybe only 5% of those travelling will do so in First Class cabins is what places such a serious obligation on the supplier : anyone sitting in that section of an aircraft (especially those doing so with their own money) has every right to expect high standards of service - and a professional response to grievances when things go wrong. Ideally, without the need to resort to legal channels.
FT, as I say, is now more J than before but a lot of people seem to be in F hither and yon. FT is totally unrepresentative of the general traveling population most of whom have never heard of Flyertalk either. That's what I mean by phenomenon. Of course you are correct, but until people do move elsewhere, nothing is going to happen. As most flights that I seem to be on seem packed, clearly either the weight of inertia has set in with some people, or they have no choice over the buying decision. Indeed, who knows? They may be perfectly happy. We all have different criteria. Me? Point to point please.
#47
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Spire Elite
Posts: 289
I am less than impressed with BA right now: My assessment right now is that the in flight staff do a consistent and good job, but the equipment and ground staff are in a sorry state compared to the alternatives.
I will likely do what the rest of you seem to be doing: giving up on brand loyalty and flying BA where it's a better+cheaper option, but certainly not preferring it anymore, and spending down my avios instead of accumulating them.
For what it's worth: The trip where I had a broken seat in F was either just before I learned about Flyertalk, or just after.
I will likely do what the rest of you seem to be doing: giving up on brand loyalty and flying BA where it's a better+cheaper option, but certainly not preferring it anymore, and spending down my avios instead of accumulating them.
For what it's worth: The trip where I had a broken seat in F was either just before I learned about Flyertalk, or just after.
#48
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
The very fact that maybe only 5% of those travelling will do so in First Class cabins is what places such a serious obligation on the supplier : anyone sitting in that section of an aircraft (especially those doing so with their own money) has every right to expect high standards of service - and a professional response to grievances when things go wrong. Ideally, without the need to resort to legal channels.
Let's also not forget that there is always the ultimate alternative: not to fly at all. Airlines with monopolies and fortress hubs may feel invincible while cutting/chopping and slashing at the flying experience, but there are very few of us - even in business - who can't simply fly less or even not at all.
#49
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
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Why are we even having a debate over Bombay v Gordon’s? Neither cut the mustard in my book. And as for the tonic, thank god BA at least serve Fever Tree 😉
#50
I really don’t know whether your speculative percentage here is right or wrong. But I guess it can’t be too far off the mark, so let’s go with it. That said, I do feel that your reference to some sort of ‘Flyertalk phenomenon’ is something of a distraction, when essentially it’s all about good customer service - a matter that has, rightly, occupied the attention and interest of consumers long before the days of FT.
The very fact that maybe only 5% of those travelling will do so in First Class cabins is what places such a serious obligation on the supplier : anyone sitting in that section of an aircraft (especially those doing so with their own money) has every right to expect high standards of service - and a professional response to grievances when things go wrong. Ideally, without the need to resort to legal channels.
It’s perhaps a naïve thought, I know .... but I often find myself wondering just what sort of airline BA could become, if their approach to cases such as this (and indeed many others), were shaped by better principles.
I’m thinking of principles where the start point is how can we resolve a legitimate claim/grievance promptly and pro-actively, and thus meet our obligations, to the customer’s satisfaction ; as distinct from let’s obfuscate and prevaricate as much as possible, in the hope that he/she may give up in frustration and/or despair, and simply goes away.
The current policy may be effective in keeping a little more money in the BA coffers ; a more ethical corporate mindset would, I firmly believe, yield far greater rewards over the longer term.
#51
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
However the quote that you give from downgrading is probably not the strongest line of argument (though certainly valid as a supporting line) since what BA does in these situation is cancel the ticket and then issues a new ticket in the lower class and refunds the delta (or offers a full refund). You are then ticketed as J class and at that point your booking doesn't point to a downgrade in terms of what the "purchased" ticket is stating, and you will be familiar with the ensuing argument. So the "comparable" conditions on Article 8, rather than Article 10, would be the better approach in my view.
I am very surprised that you are willing to give even the smallest shred of credibility to such a ridiculous argument.
#53
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,830
I refer you to (a) the bit mentioned in parenthesis at the start of the quote, plus (b) the way BA argue it in their defence submissions, which they repeatedly cut and paste from previous cases (sometimes forgetting to remove the previous case numbers along the way). I totally agree with you that the distinction referred to here is specious, but I'm drawing on what I've seen and what works, namely relying on Article 8 (which BA seemingly finds hard to challenge) rather than Article 10. Maybe there are other experiences out there which are different, in which case it would be good to hear about them.
#54
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BOS
Programs: BA Silver, Mucci
Posts: 5,289
I really don’t know whether your speculative percentage here is right or wrong. But I guess it can’t be too far off the mark, so let’s go with it. That said, I do feel that your reference to some sort of ‘Flyertalk phenomenon’ is something of a distraction, when essentially it’s all about good customer service - a matter that has, rightly, occupied the attention and interest of consumers long before the days of FT.
The very fact that maybe only 5% of those travelling will do so in First Class cabins is what places such a serious obligation on the supplier : anyone sitting in that section of an aircraft (especially those doing so with their own money) has every right to expect high standards of service - and a professional response to grievances when things go wrong. Ideally, without the need to resort to legal channels.
It’s perhaps a naïve thought, I know .... but I often find myself wondering just what sort of airline BA could become, if their approach to cases such as this (and indeed many others), were shaped by better principles.
I’m thinking of principles where the start point is how can we resolve a legitimate claim/grievance promptly and pro-actively, and thus meet our obligations, to the customer’s satisfaction ; as distinct from let’s obfuscate and prevaricate as much as possible, in the hope that he/she may give up in frustration and/or despair, and simply goes away.
The current policy may be effective in keeping a little more money in the BA coffers ; a more ethical corporate mindset would, I firmly believe, yield far greater rewards over the longer term.
#55
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,258
Seems to be something that happens when you scroll to another page within a thread with the new auto-scroll feature on FT - try opening the relevant page with the number at the bottom of the thread and it typically fixes it for me.
#56
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,180
Darling. When I was a much younger Pucci I drank Gordon's Then one day, a man (it's always about men) led me astray. He served me Bombay and I was fixed. Now I really don't know if your mustard is Colman's, Dijon, or Meaux but do tell me what you like. It has nothing to do with the thread except I have not noticed anyone dumping BA because of something important like the gin served aboard, but can you tell me why Fever Tree is so expensive? Him Indoors loves it, but I prefer Champagne aboard.
#58
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,618
I refer you to (a) the bit mentioned in parenthesis at the start of the quote, plus (b) the way BA argue it in their defence submissions, which they repeatedly cut and paste from previous cases (sometimes forgetting to remove the previous case numbers along the way). I totally agree with you that the distinction referred to here is specious, but I'm drawing on what I've seen and what works, namely relying on Article 8 (which BA seemingly finds hard to challenge) rather than Article 10. Maybe there are other experiences out there which are different, in which case it would be good to hear about them.
Sounds like yet another BA attempt to try and avoid paying , banking on person not taking it further ( like numerous delay claims )
#59
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Ayrshire
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, IHG Spire Ambassador, HH Diamond, Scandic Top Floor
Posts: 139
Nice Gins
Darling. When I was a much younger Pucci I drank Gordon's Then one day, a man (it's always about men) led me astray. He served me Bombay and I was fixed. Now I really don't know if your mustard is Colman's, Dijon, or Meaux but do tell me what you like. It has nothing to do with the thread except I have not noticed anyone dumping BA because of something important like the gin served aboard, but can you tell me why Fever Tree is so expensive? Him Indoors loves it, but I prefer Champagne aboard.
I was travelling to Warsaw today so gave me the opportunity to try out the Qantas lounge in T3, the Gin bar was fabulous, the plan was to try a few but the 2nd was so good I stuck with that. The 1st was Martin Miller, don’t remember what it was mixed with but my favourite was the Botanist mixed with an Aperol Ice cube, wedge of lime and Fever tree Aromatic tonic (the pink one) it was so good I had to have 3 just to make sure it was as good as I thought. Also staff were very nice and were happy to recommend different pours.
Last edited by Down the back; Feb 6, 2018 at 3:59 pm Reason: spelling
#60
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You say that it works , but haven't referred to any caae where BA has actually won in court using that argument - I would find it hard to believe that it could actually do so
Sounds like yet another BA attempt to try and avoid paying , banking on person not taking it further ( like numerous delay claims )
Sounds like yet another BA attempt to try and avoid paying , banking on person not taking it further ( like numerous delay claims )