I Think I may Have Had It With BA
Feb 5, 2018, 2:01 am
#31
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BA has lost every arbitration / MCOL claim I am aware of on downgrades, albeit with the person involved having to sign a confidentiality agreement.
It gets pricey too since, as arbitration cannot award Avios, the passenger gets the number of Avios due x BAs inflated 1.6p selling price.
You could ask why they continue to behave like this when their success rate in court is nil ......
It gets pricey too since, as arbitration cannot award Avios, the passenger gets the number of Avios due x BAs inflated 1.6p selling price.
You could ask why they continue to behave like this when their success rate in court is nil ......
Feb 5, 2018, 2:02 am
#32
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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However the quote that you give from downgrading is probably not the strongest line of argument (though certainly valid as a supporting line) since what BA does in these situation is cancel the ticket and then issues a new ticket in the lower class and refunds the delta (or offers a full refund). You are then ticketed as J class and at that point your booking doesn't point to a downgrade in terms of what the "purchased" ticket is stating, and you will be familiar with the ensuing argument. So the "comparable" conditions on Article 8, rather than Article 10, would be the better approach in my view.
I'd be surprised if more than a dozen people are negatively affected by this.
Feb 5, 2018, 2:11 am
#33
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But EC261 does not make that distinction. In court cases that I've seen BA have attempted to portray the alternative arrangement as "comparable", even if it is a different class of travel (after all there are no shortage of people in this forum who do the same when it comes to Qatar!). But clearly it isn't difficult for passengers to argue the case that F = F.
Feb 5, 2018, 2:18 am
#34
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In my case they claimed that VS J = BA F simply because (a) they called it "Upper Class" and (b) it was the highest class VS offered, just as F was with BA.
With that sort of logic floating around the BA legal department, I imagine the marketing people might sometimes like to get their hands on them ...
With that sort of logic floating around the BA legal department, I imagine the marketing people might sometimes like to get their hands on them ...
Feb 5, 2018, 2:21 am
#36
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I'm not aware of a case where it has gone all the way to a hearing (as opposed to arbitration) on that one, and I think it's unlikely they would do so.
However the quote that you give from downgrading is probably not the strongest line of argument (though certainly valid as a supporting line) since what BA does in these situation is cancel the ticket and then issues a new ticket in the lower class and refunds the delta (or offers a full refund). You are then ticketed as J class and at that point your booking doesn't point to a downgrade in terms of what the "purchased" ticket is stating, and you will be familiar with the ensuing argument. So the "comparable" conditions on Article 8, rather than Article 10, would be the better approach in my view.
I'd be surprised if more than a dozen people are negatively affected by this.
However the quote that you give from downgrading is probably not the strongest line of argument (though certainly valid as a supporting line) since what BA does in these situation is cancel the ticket and then issues a new ticket in the lower class and refunds the delta (or offers a full refund). You are then ticketed as J class and at that point your booking doesn't point to a downgrade in terms of what the "purchased" ticket is stating, and you will be familiar with the ensuing argument. So the "comparable" conditions on Article 8, rather than Article 10, would be the better approach in my view.
I'd be surprised if more than a dozen people are negatively affected by this.
It doesn't matter how many are affected with a systemic issue - there shouldn't be a policy to try screwing passengers over
Feb 5, 2018, 2:41 am
#37
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,500
Yeah, there's no defence BA can muster other than a trolling exercise in an attempt to rip off people who don't know their rights. Pretty terrible, especially when you consider there'll be less than 100 people affected.
Feb 5, 2018, 3:11 am
#39
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Watching Death in Paradise is no happy ending to me, I'd rather watch paint dry.I don't doubt that German TV will buy it and ogle it, as Inspector Barnaby shows no sign of running out of steam. Maybe with all the money that he is going to receive from BA, he can go and get a recording device or subscribe to Catch Up. My lifeline for Engrenages and Peaky Blinders (amongst many according to Lord Candy Crush aka HI).
Frankly, had I had some of this nonsense, I would have gone a long time ago. I sometimes have a hankering to see whether the grass is any greener elsewhere. Then I remember some of the wonderful service I have "enjoyed" elsewhere. I really do not care to make stops unless it saves me £££ - ex Dub comes to mind. In the past year I sampled the delights of AA International. No thanks. Lufthansa I will never fly again at my own expense. Alitalia I would not cross the road to fly. Ultimately, I wind up back at BA's door as they seem to suit me.
Ultimately, it's your money, and if it is not appreciated then why stay? If I were to buy a car, a TV - anythiing that caused me grief and hours on the phone - I would not repeat the mistake I made in the first place. I have long wondered why there was so much animosity, fair or otherwise. I think that BD enters the mix here, as I cannot believe why so many people seem to want to fly to or LBA. BA used to years ago, but domestic flights have never made money for them. Nevertheless a lot of this is a Flyertalk phenomenon as 95% of the travelling public have never set foot in F let alone had a broken seat.
Frankly, had I had some of this nonsense, I would have gone a long time ago. I sometimes have a hankering to see whether the grass is any greener elsewhere. Then I remember some of the wonderful service I have "enjoyed" elsewhere. I really do not care to make stops unless it saves me £££ - ex Dub comes to mind. In the past year I sampled the delights of AA International. No thanks. Lufthansa I will never fly again at my own expense. Alitalia I would not cross the road to fly. Ultimately, I wind up back at BA's door as they seem to suit me.
Ultimately, it's your money, and if it is not appreciated then why stay? If I were to buy a car, a TV - anythiing that caused me grief and hours on the phone - I would not repeat the mistake I made in the first place. I have long wondered why there was so much animosity, fair or otherwise. I think that BD enters the mix here, as I cannot believe why so many people seem to want to fly to or LBA. BA used to years ago, but domestic flights have never made money for them. Nevertheless a lot of this is a Flyertalk phenomenon as 95% of the travelling public have never set foot in F let alone had a broken seat.
Feb 5, 2018, 3:46 am
#40
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Feb 5, 2018, 3:58 am
#41
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The very fact that maybe only 5% of those travelling will do so in First Class cabins is what places such a serious obligation on the supplier : anyone sitting in that section of an aircraft (especially those doing so with their own money) has every right to expect high standards of service - and a professional response to grievances when things go wrong. Ideally, without the need to resort to legal channels.
It’s perhaps a naïve thought, I know .... but I often find myself wondering just what sort of airline BA could become, if their approach to cases such as this (and indeed many others), were shaped by better principles.
I’m thinking of principles where the start point is how can we resolve a legitimate claim/grievance promptly and pro-actively, and thus meet our obligations, to the customer’s satisfaction ; as distinct from let’s obfuscate and prevaricate as much as possible, in the hope that he/she may give up in frustration and/or despair, and simply goes away.
The current policy may be effective in keeping a little more money in the BA coffers ; a more ethical corporate mindset would, I firmly believe, yield far greater rewards over the longer term.
Feb 5, 2018, 4:09 am
#42
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The refund referred to in the quote is the difference between J and F. But BA is OK with the general principle of offering a refund or rebooking, the only time I've encountered problems there is when they prematurely stop flying altogether to a location with no sensible oneworld alternative: that announcement comes quickly, negotiating an arrangement with alternative airlines often takes weeks. For J redemptions on DOH they were rebooked into J on QR, so no issue there. The worst affected in this area, in my personal view, were not F customer - it was those passengers who booked into BA WTP, since QR doesn't offer such a product. They were downgraded to QR Economy and the refund - EC261 or otherwise - barely covers it.
Feb 5, 2018, 4:19 am
#43
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Feb 5, 2018, 4:29 am
#44
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Watching Death in Paradise is no happy ending to me, I'd rather watch paint dry.I don't doubt that German TV will buy it and ogle it, as Inspector Barnaby shows no sign of running out of steam. Maybe with all the money that he is going to receive from BA, he can go and get a recording device or subscribe to Catch Up. My lifeline for Engrenages and Peaky Blinders (amongst many according to Lord Candy Crush aka HI).
Frankly, had I had some of this nonsense, I would have gone a long time ago. I sometimes have a hankering to see whether the grass is any greener elsewhere. Then I remember some of the wonderful service I have "enjoyed" elsewhere. I really do not care to make stops unless it saves me £££ - ex Dub comes to mind. In the past year I sampled the delights of AA International. No thanks. Lufthansa I will never fly again at my own expense. Alitalia I would not cross the road to fly. Ultimately, I wind up back at BA's door as they seem to suit me.
Feb 5, 2018, 5:15 am
#45
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I really must call your judgement into question for a second time (the first instance being a preference for Bombay and Slim over the superior Gordon's Export and Schweppes). Death in Paradise is a vastly superior program. The fact that this is not universally recognised is a national tragedy.
In my defence, Yout Magnificence, I did say this was a rant and I would continue to fly BA. I will, however, consider the options before loyally giving them my money. Not that they've had much of it this year...
In my defence, Yout Magnificence, I did say this was a rant and I would continue to fly BA. I will, however, consider the options before loyally giving them my money. Not that they've had much of it this year...
I have a confession to make - I used to set the Sky box to watch Jerry Springer about 10 or more years ago. I used to watch it when I got back off a trip and I had to cover my mouth with a cushion as my cackles could be heard at Heathrow. That has been my guilty secret for years. Promise that you won't tell!
No, Dear - considering that we are but into very early February I doubt that they have had much of your money. If Mrs Sbrenna is further inconvenienced by your listening to the interminable sound of the BA Hold music (I'd suggest that should be changed as well but if it is as tedious as the Safety Video then that might not be such a good idea).