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Jumbo Jet nostalgia (Telegraph article)

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Old Jan 7, 2018, 1:41 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by highpeaklad


Airlines don’t buy new for novelty’s sake, they do it for sound economic reasons. A new interior can be put into an old plane but extensive maintenance checks are needed as the airframe ages so it becomes uneconomic to do so. I’m sure BA could keep the 747 flying for a lot longer, but the huge cost of airworthiness checks and their poorer fuel consumption means it just isn’t worth it.
For airframes, the point is that there is a fuel efficient new version of the 747 which could easily replace less efficient old planes as they come up for D checks. However, the 747 seems out of favour.

Fashion and novelty do however feature in fit out and seem to appeal above substance to many in here.

The two issues are separate, but I think can be combined so that the view is A380 must be new and 747 old whereas there are far newer 747 interiors in BA’s fleet than some A380. I suspect this does influence purchasing decisions, to the 747’s detriment.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 2:14 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by londonsmiler
Does anyone have any experinces of touring the "graveyards". We are traveling from California to Arizona next month and I see there is one in Mojave that you can drive past to view from the road but more excitingly you can get a tour of the one in Tucson (Tour Boneyard)

We were planning to stay North of phoenix (grand canyon, monument valley - yes I know it will be cold) but now I'm wondering if it's worth a slight change of plans to try to make it down to Tucson...
I was staying in Phoenix a couple of years ago and thoroughly enjoyed a visit to the Davis Monthan museum and boneyard (Pima Air & Space Museum Tucson Arizona).
The boneyard part of the visit/tour is on an air conditioned bus - the boneyard is all military but there are a few civvies parked outside the museum (think they just got a DC10).

We did pass a civil boneyard between Phoenix and Tucson but as it was a tour to Davis Monthan we did not stop.

I also found the nearby Titan Missile Museum worth a visit - it's a decommissioned ICBM silo complete with Titan rocket in place - plenty of info on the internet and not too far from Tucson.
Note : If you do want to tour the boneyard at Davis Monthan - take your passport with you, it is an active base and they need photo ID.
Enjoy!
Bat 21
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Last edited by Bat 21; Jan 7, 2018 at 2:42 am Reason: extra info
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 2:17 am
  #18  
 
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B747-8's are still coming off the production line.Lufthansa may have theirs for 20 more years.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 3:51 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by FrancisA
For airframes, the point is that there is a fuel efficient new version of the 747 which could easily replace less efficient old planes as they come up for D checks. However, the 747 seems out of favour.
Originally Posted by rapidex
B747-8's are still coming off the production line. Lufthansa may have theirs for 20 more years.
AIUI, there aren't expected to be any more purchases of passenger 748s, although I can't remember what the current backlog is of this variant. It seems to have sold better as a new-build freighter.

Part of the equation is, AIUI, that even though the 748 is more full efficient than the 744, the 1960s architecture means that it isn't as good as newer designs. Presumably, some of the argument for buying 748s will be the need for an aircraft of that specific capacity on some routes, but that's likely to be a small cohort of airlines anyway. And there may be some commonality cost benefits for an airline that already operates 744s. But the picture suggests that if you don't already operate 744s, you're unlikely to want 748s.

388s aren't exactly flavour of the month either, so this is not simply a question of whether the newer model is being favoured over the current derivative of the older model. The plain truth is that airlines generally don't want to buy such big aircraft any more, with only a handful of exceptions.

It won't, though, surprise FTers to know that if there's a 744 going in my direction, I'll be there. The 747 is iconic not only for its shape but for its place in history: the aircraft that really brought global air travel to ordinary people. And the 744 is the aircraft that, more than any other, defines my flying experience. It's home, and I'm not voluntarily moving out any time soon.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 4:16 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by londonsmiler
Does anyone have any experinces of touring the "graveyards". We are traveling from California to Arizona next month and I see there is one in Mojave that you can drive past to view from the road but more excitingly you can get a tour of the one in Tucson (Tour Boneyard)

We were planning to stay North of phoenix (grand canyon, monument valley - yes I know it will be cold) but now I'm wondering if it's worth a slight change of plans to try to make it down to Tucson...
As already mentioned, if you have time then take a day drive down to Davis-Monthan for military stuff. The info you have been given re needing your photo ID is correct. On the way you can turn off the I10 to Marana but you cant get close to the boneyard there. On your way from Ca to Az you could take a divert and head for Mojave (where you cant really get close but can get a good view from the I14/58) and Victorville(the old George AFB). You can get round the boundary fence there and see plenty of stored/scrapped aircraft (inc some BA 747s). Between the 2 you pass the Edwards AFB where the gate guardian is a B52. Closer to the Grand Canyon there is Kingman(mostly smaller aircraft from US operators and freight aircraft) where you can get up close. Advice is take a good camera with photo lens if you have one. If you are close to Vegas you can moreorless park at the end of the runway for Nellis AFB which can be quite fun too for an hour
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 5:28 am
  #21  
 
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My travelling companion flew on BA 107 on Jan 5th (a 744 upper deck, I think she said). Loved it. It was G-CIVD according to Flightradar24.com.

I still remember two OPUP in 2009 from WT+ to upper deck. Those OPUPs gave BA my "flying soul". Thus, I fly BA from MENA to YYZ on BA exclusively since 2009.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 1:44 pm
  #22  
 
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1K yesterday. Still nothing else like it in the sky. Ditto upper deck.

Will keep actively choosing them where possible until they are sadly gone.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 3:34 pm
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If you guys want to say farewell to BA's 747, take a short trip to Valencia from LGW. Teruel airport is only 1 hour from Valencia and offers good views for spotters. BA's birds shall be cut soon (now they are finishing a couple of KLM's) so be quick. There are also several Transaero 747's and some 747F. Nice place for eating (iberico ham, truffle, lamb...), skiing and enjoying some historical towns like Albarracin, or Mora. Just remember to bring a good coat as winters are bitterly cold.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 3:46 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by longliveKA
If you guys want to say farewell to BA's 747, take a short trip to Valencia from LGW. Teruel airport is only 1 hour from Valencia and offers good views for spotters. BA's birds shall be cut soon (now they are finishing a couple of KLM's) so be quick.
FWIW, the following aircraft went to TEV:-
G-BNLF (05.2016)
G-BNLV (08.2016)
G-BNLJ (10.2016)
G-BNLO (03.2017)

As far as I can remember, these were the four most recent 744 retirements.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 6:19 pm
  #25  
 
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The prototype (RA001) of the 747 is on display at the Museum of Flight, at the south end of Boeing Field in Seattle. It has been restored (as the test aircraft it was), re-painted and is now under a roof, along with Concorde and several other aircraft. I still remember going down to SeaTac sometime in 1970 to watch it make touch'n'go landings before it was certified.

The Pima Air & Space Museum, adjacent to the Davis-Monthan boneyard, is well worth a visit. They have one of the few remaining B-36 bombers, the 747 of its day (as in "How does something that big fly?").
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 6:49 pm
  #26  
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I do have a bit of a soft spot for the 747 as my first ride on one was with Wardair from PIK-YVR back in the 80's. Had a fantastic month long cycle/camping holiday up through the Rockies to Alberta.

The fare was £452 return in economy.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 8:25 pm
  #27  
 
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What an article

Aside from the spelling mistakes did they not even bother to look up the fleets properly? CX retired its passenger 747s last year, it now has 20 freighters of which 14 are brand new 8Fs.

There is a lot of nostalgia on here about the 747 but I'm glad they're on their way out. They're loud and uncomfortable compared to the current generation aircraft.
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 2:29 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by 1010101
What an article

Aside from the spelling mistakes did they not even bother to look up the fleets properly? CX retired its passenger 747s last year, it now has 20 freighters of which 14 are brand new 8Fs.

There is a lot of nostalgia on here about the 747 but I'm glad they're on their way out. They're loud and uncomfortable compared to the current generation aircraft.
I would say a F or UD CW on a BA 747 is far more comfortable than the same cabins on any other aircraft in the BA fleet. As for noise, if you sat me blindfolded on a 747 or A380, I would struggle to tell you which was which.

Of course more modern designs should be more efficient, but that is in terms of fuel economy for the airline, which may result in a quieter plane. Comfort depends on how you fit out the plane. The last 50 years have been about designs more focused on airlines’ bottom lines than passengers’ aspirations.
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 3:40 am
  #29  
 
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The CW cabin on the UD of the BA 747's will be very sadly missed when they eventually retire.

To this day I would still actively choose a 747 over any other long haul aircraft type except the A380.
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 4:21 am
  #30  
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Originally Posted by clarkeysntfc
The CW cabin on the UD of the BA 747's will be very sadly missed when they eventually retire.

To this day I would still actively choose a 747 over any other long haul aircraft type except the A380.
On my current trip AA messed around with flight times and types which allowed me some freedom to rebook something else of my choosing. I specifically went for an itinerary including 747 TATLs, I have 64A to look forward to coming home later today. To me the A380 just has no soul (sorry I know this is an odd point and most wouldn't care) whereas the 747 does.
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