I feel slightly ashamed [Another QR>BA thread]
Oct 21, 2017, 1:42 am
#76
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: OSL
Posts: 2,644
There are at least 3 777 variations on QR that I've travelled on in the last 6 months. One of which isn't a step over, you cannot exit at all if the passenger has the table out or has the seat in a particular recline, they would need to straighten up. Yes it is selective, that was kind of the point I was making: namely on (e.g.) KUL you're comparing potentially a fairly ropy 777 from QR with a 787-9 from BA. Horses for courses, unless that is, you are travelling WTP or First. There again QR is probably going to be a lot cheaper. There is no perfect answer here.
Yes, there is no great answer. You’re right about that. As I said, I am not a fan of BA but would always choose over and indirect. That tends to mean QR or others for private and BA for work.
Oct 21, 2017, 1:51 am
#77
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
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And the Q-Suite really does blow all other business product out of the market from a total viewpoint of privacy, comfort and design.
Now, the reason why BA can get away with the bare bones service and shoddy quality on many aircrafts (and a severely downgraded wine list) is that most people if given the choice would opt for direct if going to London. BAs market is London despite what people want them to be and personally I loathe a 6-hour flight plus and a 7-10 hour flight with QR over direct. For work I’d always chose direct if given the choice. I think BA is fairly aware of the product quality given that prior to the JV with QR BA was cheaper than QR, and on HKG flight cheaper than CX. And we’re talking home market airline vs foreign out of LHR.
It's undoubtedly the constant innovation and sense of overall hard & soft product quality (not least, catering standards) that sets QR's J class ground & onboard offering so far apart from most other major carriers (not just BA).
Like so many here, I've become quite a fan of BAEC as a FF programme, and the tangible benefits and choice it brings for longhaul travel (or even domestic sectors, notably in Asian countries, and Australia). The programme was significantly enhanced, at a stroke, when QR joined OneWorld back in 2013 (and handy too for Sr. Cruz, when faced with periodic CC strike action).
Oct 21, 2017, 2:33 am
#78
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Manchester but from Yorkshire better known as Gods country
Programs: BA Gold, , Sandals plat
Posts: 839
Totally agree, there a numerous golds who fly the minimum BA flights they can to achieve status and are never going to praise BA over their favoured choice of airline. Personally I agree with the OP and I have a further criteria that I’m not happy with the ethics of the state with regards to its human rights and where my money goes so I choose to avoid QR at all costs.
Oct 21, 2017, 2:37 am
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,531
You mean the welcome we are told no one wants?
From my experience on QR there is no 'special' recognition, everyone in the Business Cabin gets a welcome ... and a goodbye ... although it isn't always clear what they are actually saying because the message is that rushed.
From my experience on QR there is no 'special' recognition, everyone in the Business Cabin gets a welcome ... and a goodbye ... although it isn't always clear what they are actually saying because the message is that rushed.
I agreed with IAN-UK that in my recent experiences (I did not fly QR Y until recently but have done a few of them in a row) the SCCM greeting in Y was notably better on QR (or for that matter on AF and for HON members I have seen on LX) than on BA. There is no unified procedure but I have indeed often been asked to pre-order my preferred options for the meal (not always) at that stage, other time, the SCCM would ask the crew member in charge of my section and openly ask him/her to take particularly good care of me during the flight and make sure that I get anything that would make me more comfortable. On two occasions, the SCCM had also spotted whole rows I could get and invited me to move there if I wished.
I have never had any of this on BA except once when travelling in WT+ and being told I might be more comfortable with a full row of seats in Y!
I am not a huge fan of QR food. It is good, I would say better than CW except the new JFK, but frankly way below a number of other competitors and not a reason in and by itself to choose QR over BA even though it is consistently better presented. F food is very similar to J which is also disappointing, apart from caviar.
I disagree with those who find QR crew robotic. It has never been my experience. They are typically good and very friendly and talkative if you signal to them that you enjoy friendly chatter, which is pretty much exactly the same as what I would say of BA crew, of which I have had some outstanding specimens as well as some good, average, and horrid ones, just like basically any other airline. 'Best of AF' and 'Best of LX' are probably the very best that I have experienced but those two airlines also have their bad crews like the others.
Oct 21, 2017, 2:40 am
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
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I agree completely with the first part of your statement, and not at all with the second, perhaps because I'm a GGL/CCR who has already flown on 26 different airlines since the start of 2017 (not out of line with my usual range).
Oct 21, 2017, 2:55 am
#81
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
Totally agree, there a numerous golds who fly the minimum BA flights they can to achieve status and are never going to praise BA over their favoured choice of airline. Personally I agree with the OP and I have a further criteria that I’m not happy with the ethics of the state with regards to its human rights and where my money goes so I choose to avoid QR at all costs.
(bold is mine)
Fully respect your personal ethical stance - assuming of course you actually hold good to your principles by avoiding BA - ie. in the very same way that you "choose to avoid QR at all costs".
That would be vital to ensure that your money does not go to Qatar, where you clearly do not wish it to go. Qatar Airways recently increased its shareholder stake in IAG, such that they now own around 20% of BA's parent company ; which of course generates significant income for QR.
Awkward, isn't it ......
Last edited by subject2load; Oct 21, 2017 at 4:54 am Reason: missing verb
Oct 21, 2017, 3:14 am
#82
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Plymouth, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,159
From a financial perspective... if you want to avoid giving your money to Qatar then you have to avoid all IAG airlines and associated businesses IMO.
Personally, I have no issues with Qatar or QR. I would have issues with Saudi Arabia though and yet we, as a country in the UK, seem to love everything Saudi.
It is difficult. The reality is that it is probably impossible to totally buy on ethical grounds nowadays as it is such a complex and international world financially. Who knows where your money goes once you have spent it.
Personally, I have no issues with Qatar or QR. I would have issues with Saudi Arabia though and yet we, as a country in the UK, seem to love everything Saudi.
It is difficult. The reality is that it is probably impossible to totally buy on ethical grounds nowadays as it is such a complex and international world financially. Who knows where your money goes once you have spent it.
Oct 21, 2017, 4:35 am
#83
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Totally agree, there a numerous golds who fly the minimum BA flights they can to achieve status and are never going to praise BA over their favoured choice of airline. Personally I agree with the OP and I have a further criteria that I’m not happy with the ethics of the state with regards to its human rights and where my money goes so I choose to avoid QR at all costs.
And what would you have done on a BA short haul subbed by QR - offloaded? I doubt whether Qatar was leasing the aircraft for nowt.
Oct 21, 2017, 6:18 am
#85
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: Meh
Posts: 2,598
Oct 21, 2017, 10:22 am
#86
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 93
Mixed sectors
I've just come off my first QR with three sectors in economy and one in J on a 777 so 2-2-2 seating in business. My thoughts..
- I've got a new found appreciation of BA direct flights after agreeing with all of what has been posted here before about BA 'enhancements'. It was like doing two long haul flights back to back when your sleep is broken in the middle to Asia.
- Y was perfectly decent...if the aircraft is not full..ten abreast seating...say no more.
- The lounge for one world sapphire not flying QR business is frankly crap. I couldn't find a seat and when I pointed out I normally fly business and this was a last minute trip they took me to the adjacent first class lounge. Mildly better but food was still awful. At least BA don't segregate their business and one world status passenger's.
- Transfer was disorganized. Remote stand at Doha. Staff asking pax before getting off bus where we had come from to decide whether we needed screening or not.
- J was ok. Not a fan of side by side seating and the seat was hard especially the rim of the headrest that managed to avoid the pillow and hit my neck when sitting down. Also felt slightly sloped
- Entertainment was so so...the 777 system was not very responsive. Ba new system is better
- service was good though I'd agree with above. It's non stop. Fine if you want to sample all that's on offer but I found myself closing my eyes to avoid being asked if I wanted anything else when k was just trying to have a quiet moment
I would automatically in the past have loved QR with the service level but having flown nearly 750,000 km in the past two years direct will win next time and that's why BA is still profitable despite the enhancements!
PS Forgot to add got a greeting from the CSD on the J sector as a BA Silver...no one else seemed to. Long time since that happened on BA
- I've got a new found appreciation of BA direct flights after agreeing with all of what has been posted here before about BA 'enhancements'. It was like doing two long haul flights back to back when your sleep is broken in the middle to Asia.
- Y was perfectly decent...if the aircraft is not full..ten abreast seating...say no more.
- The lounge for one world sapphire not flying QR business is frankly crap. I couldn't find a seat and when I pointed out I normally fly business and this was a last minute trip they took me to the adjacent first class lounge. Mildly better but food was still awful. At least BA don't segregate their business and one world status passenger's.
- Transfer was disorganized. Remote stand at Doha. Staff asking pax before getting off bus where we had come from to decide whether we needed screening or not.
- J was ok. Not a fan of side by side seating and the seat was hard especially the rim of the headrest that managed to avoid the pillow and hit my neck when sitting down. Also felt slightly sloped
- Entertainment was so so...the 777 system was not very responsive. Ba new system is better
- service was good though I'd agree with above. It's non stop. Fine if you want to sample all that's on offer but I found myself closing my eyes to avoid being asked if I wanted anything else when k was just trying to have a quiet moment
I would automatically in the past have loved QR with the service level but having flown nearly 750,000 km in the past two years direct will win next time and that's why BA is still profitable despite the enhancements!
PS Forgot to add got a greeting from the CSD on the J sector as a BA Silver...no one else seemed to. Long time since that happened on BA
Last edited by marcusm1; Oct 21, 2017 at 10:42 am Reason: Greeting
Oct 21, 2017, 10:44 am
#87
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
Oct 21, 2017, 12:38 pm
#88
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,144
BA are nowhere near as bad as people make out they are on here. If you listened to everything on this forum you would think they are the worst form of public transport in the world! and for heaven sake for the past two or three years if I had a pound for everyone that keeps saying BA is on a race to the bottom I would be a very rich man indeed!
Oct 21, 2017, 12:50 pm
#89
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL (for now) and Lifetime Gold, Marriott fan thanks to Bonvoy Moments
Posts: 5,115
All very good points I feel. I would highlight one particular factor:
- the sheer span of QR's fleet is extraordinary. One of my recent flights was on a 777 with seating far worse than the recently retired BA 767 service. No working power, very poor seat quality and a very poor IFE. Window passengers are trapped by the aisle passenger's seat. At the other end are QRs mini suites (not yet tried) and the very good A380 seats, albeit in a huge dorm. Now BA has many fleet variations too, but the span is much narrower and if you like the BA product as I do then after a few QR flights I was somewhat longing for my CW window seat.
Now I don't think anyone has said QR are perfect - they are not, and it's quite possible to come up with a heap of other niggles as we have seen upthread - the point is that we're lucky to have some good airlines in the oneworld alliance and some good choices. Equally on another day, another route, another aircraft, BA can easily outperform the rest of the pack.
- the sheer span of QR's fleet is extraordinary. One of my recent flights was on a 777 with seating far worse than the recently retired BA 767 service. No working power, very poor seat quality and a very poor IFE. Window passengers are trapped by the aisle passenger's seat. At the other end are QRs mini suites (not yet tried) and the very good A380 seats, albeit in a huge dorm. Now BA has many fleet variations too, but the span is much narrower and if you like the BA product as I do then after a few QR flights I was somewhat longing for my CW window seat.
Now I don't think anyone has said QR are perfect - they are not, and it's quite possible to come up with a heap of other niggles as we have seen upthread - the point is that we're lucky to have some good airlines in the oneworld alliance and some good choices. Equally on another day, another route, another aircraft, BA can easily outperform the rest of the pack.
As to previous points on timings, think that really depends on the flight. Sometimes can help force some readjustment to time zones....
Overall I'd probably opt for QR these days, but that's inevitably due to pricing and TPs - if BA resume the £2k CW fare to Australia from Norway I'll be back to BA with my GUFs!