mrow

This is my experience too. AA are very sensitive about things around the flight deck...moreso than I've seen and experienced on BA. The point I was trying to make was that there was very little chance that the troublesome passenger would become a significant impediment to the operation of the flight deck.

That said, as per my previous post, I fully understand why they'd want him removed from the aircraft as soon as possible. If I were the captain I wouldn't want someone creating merry hell in the cabin...just because they can't break the door down and get to me on the flight deck, doesn't mean I wouldn't have concern for the safety of the other passengers and crew.

Ancient Observer

I am 65 or over. I also smoke, so I have cancer. I can become grumpy. My daughter and lots of relatives are diabetic, so I probably have that too.

So come on airlines. Stop allowing me to stay in POW class. Put me up front!!!

no longer atc

Pretty much like an India flight then....

WorldLux

On FR everybody's flying first class

SonTech

Considering he was restrained then that to me says he was a risk to others or the crew thought there was.....

ScubaRoo

I wonder how many of the crew were trained First Aiders and able to spot a potential display of a worsening diabetes condition, symptoms which can be anxiety, confusion and even irritated aggression. Yes I appreciate hard to tell apart from a tired drunk too...

Maybe they should of let him calmly sit in a quiet seat in business whilst a crew member assessed his claims about his condition, & possibly called for a GP onboard?

If he was "trying it on" that should be able to have been assessed also.

If it was the latter, formally get CSM to explain that if he doesn't return to his paid seat in the next 20 mins, warn the pax they will be pending an investigation which could result in them never flying with BA (and affiliated airlines) again? This could been a lot cheaper for BA rather than emergency landing and yet more negative PR.

tgsh2006

To me this is a question of proportionality. IF this passenger was a PHYSICAL threat to the security of the flight then BA have acted correctly; however, it seems to me (based on the limited information available) that this passenger was a pain in the arse! OK he "self upgraded". For the sake of the flight, CC should have just left him there and then dealt with it as a civil issue, refusing CW service etc whilst en route. Just because an issue takes places in the air does not give CC the right to use physical force that seems completely disproportionate to the actual issue. If he is verbally abusive that can be dealt with as a criminal offence upon landing. Tying someone up, handcuffing them, then having to land is just completely OTT. It is for BA to justify the use of force, and yes the PIC has sole authority BUT it is still necessary for the PIC to justify the use of force, and the proportionality of the force used. Yes, we want to hear from BA; however, legally on the force issue, I suspect BA could be in a bit of a pickle here if this customer decides to pursue civil action for inter alia assault. I see nothing here that justifies the amount of force used.

T8191

A reasoned response, ScubaRoo. But ... next time I feel the need, as an Elder, shoukd I play the indefinable Health Card? "Oh, I have Diabetes and Cancer and a Bad Back and Kidney Stones and Bad Teeth ... etc." ... put me in First or I will die!

It smells to me like trying it on. If he's that ill, he shouldn't be attempting a 10-hour sector.

When I Travel The World

Very good point, but,

What If I wanted to also do that. I'm perfectly healthy and could just help myself to a business class seat saying that i'm feeling very sick and like I might have food poisoning and just threw up in the toilet before i helped myself to a business class seat.

I also get very grumpy if I don't eat often, but I bring snacks with me.

That is the problem in my view, anyone can say anything to sit further froward and its very hard for an airline crew to do much about it.

HIDDY

My sympathies lie with the customers and crew who have had to put up with the consequences of this eejits actions.

T8191

More info tomorrow, I hope, once BA has got it's act together.

ScubaRoo

But if you're (hypothetically) selfish/stupid enough to try on such a stunt, my suggestions for how the crew responds would make you think twice. Especially if warned that such overly disruptive behaviour could also lead to criminal charges and/or an emergency diversion for medical or security reasons....

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T8191

I believe 'disrupting a flight on public transport' is indeed an offence. whether BA would wish to pursue that is a different question, given the adverse publicity that would ensue.

But, hey mon, let's try this and see how it goes, eh?

ahmetdouas

I think its significant that Azores police saw nothing wrong with his actions and released him immediately.

LondonCanuck

EH? Please leave us Canadians out of it... Ya Man?