LTN Phobia

Can we tone down the arguments and be more polite to each other please?

Simple rules we'd really like everyone to observe (as part of FlyerTalk rules):
Please:
- Don't be dismissive towards other posters
- Don't be aggressive towards other posters
- Be respectful towards other posters and their opinions
- Be considerate towards other posters

I hope they are not exactly difficult requests to comply with.

Thanks for your cooperation.

LTN Phobia
Moderator: BA forum

KeaneJohn

What just like that disabled lady and young helper did?

This also upsets me. Fortunately i've educated my parents and they have experience of a lengthy delay and then assisted them

When I was a student, I would have accommodation paid for and return tickets. I'd sometimes have my last breakfast, grab a few things to graze on and then rely on the plane catering to get me home.

Even recently, I stayed in 3 different hotels over a week in 2 different countries and the pre-authorisations didn't match the final amounts due to exchange rate differences and none of the hotels completed the transaction so it meant that double the funds were earmarked. I wouldn't always be able to do this either.

People without local knowledge wouldn't know that you go stay in Woking or Windsor or East Croydon or places like that. The other day I had to book a late night hotel same day at Gatwick. Some search engines were bringing up the Ibis in Stratford at £180!!!

Not saying theft BA should be able to magic up rooms if there aren't any but duty of care is the key here.

After the United situation and the American stroller, I feel more and more people will start to film these things and it will come back to bite BA on the arse one day.

DYKWIA

To be fair, AMEX Platinum Insurance coughed up. They didn't need to, but they said they'd make an exception. I hope they managed to claw it back from BA.

I was OK, as I knew what I was doing. Most of the others were having the trip of a lifetime, and had no idea what to do.

KeaneJohn

Would you then book to fly with that carrier again after you were abandoned albeit that you got home at an additional €230.

Do you also have details of an insurance policy that covers this scenario.

meester69

There are plenty of third world relatives of British citizens who have never been on a flight before, and have never used credit cards in their lives. And every day a goodly number of them will fly BA.

nallison

This thread has unfortunately shown up some of the absolute worst of flyertalk, and some members really should step back and have a think about the language they are using. Calling people 'ignorant', 'sheep', accusing them of 'only having themselves to blame', having a 'victim mentality' because they had the misfortune to experience IRROPS and the airline didn't fulfil it's obligations really is pretty low. Then to top it all, apparently any 'responsible parent' is able to just hand out credit cards to their kids. The amount of judgement of people based on their material resources is very, very ugly.

I fly a lot and have had some experiences that certainly became very unpleasant, whether you call that an ordeal is really just semantics, and certainly for infrequent flyers it is easy to imagine it would be. But as usual it's easier to pick on people's use of words to divert the conversation rather than acknowledge BA screwed up. The OPs post was perfectly reasonable, without hyperbole, and described an unpleasant situation. Why some dive in to blame the passenegrs is really quite mystifying? Do some egos really require reassurance of their superiority at every opportunity?

I tend to use the 'how would my grandparents fare in this situation' test against which the level of care of the company concerned can be assessed. Expecting everyone on a plane, many of whom don't speak the language, don't have huge financial resources, to be fully armed, prepared and informed for any eventuality, for something they might do a couple of times in their lives is really quite ridiculous. Especially when we have laws and regulations that place a duty of care on the airline. I imagine people expect that when coming to a developed country using a first world airline it can manage to fulfil its legal obligations.

The tone of some posts that people who don't look after themselves are somehow lacking is really rather unncecessary. Then again some people clearly haven't been within a country mile of the real world for some time given the shock some express that some people won't just drop £200 on a hotel/don't have credit cards etc etc. Firstly, how is anyone supposed to know what BA's limit is? Secondly, would you really trust BA to refund you if all you knew was everything you'd read about them cost cutting and denying people compensation? For a frequent flyer maybe it doesn't matter if you never get refunded, for most people it does and the intervening period may be rather stressful.

As for insurance most policies won't cover this, and even if they do, insurance companies are also notorious for trying everything to avoid making payouts. Frankly, for me travel insurance is only of real use for medical emergencies.

I really don't understand the need some have to put others down for their lack of intricate knowledge of what to do when airlines screw up? Offering advice is fine, but when it comes more in the form of self congratulation and constant digs at those less informed, it just looks a bit pathetic. Believe it or not, there are probably other situations in which these people would be much better prepared than yourself. Handing airline IRROPS is not the ultimate test of your ranking as a human being

seawolf

Sounds like you should have given AA a call instead as you had AA segments and connecting OW.

AA Protection for OSO / IROPS / IRROPS / Misconnect on Separate AA / oneworld Tickets

dylanks

Overall sounds pretty awful and unfortunately too common.

Regarding those complaining about posts explaining what they would have done, the whole point of that is to help people in the future when they have IRROPS, search google, and end up on this thread.

BA simply needs to do better with IRROPS... the amount of time they make people wait, and their unwillingness to be more flexible in helping people out (e.g. not rebooking the OP all the way to SMF), and their lack of good communication needs to improve. It reflects a culture that does not empower their staff to make decisions in fear of being told they did the wrong thing (or outsourced staff who have limited knowledge or options). It also reflects a lack of IT investment for auto-rebooking options compared to say AA.

These are situations where BA is clearly at fault (the IRROPS) and should be going out of their way things better, but their sometimes flippant approach instead makes inconvenient situations even worse.

Ancient Observer

As everyone on this Board is able to type English, (or American!), and as English is one of the most commonly taught second languages, might I recommend that anyone who is blaming the slf should aim to go to, say, a secondary airport in Japan or Sichuan to discover the delights of being stuck in a foreign land with no grasp of the local language.

The other dynamic that happens with IRROPS is the defensive posture adopted by some staff. On a delayed BA long haul flight to Asia in a 747 as a J pax, I over heard the "load manager" or whatever they call the land based person in charge of IRROPS saying to the CSD that "This lot", (us pax) were to be kept on the plane, and not allowed off, "as we would cause a mess" back in the airport.
My plan B was already in place, all I wanted was to get off the plane and get on with plan B. All that the responsible person from BA wanted was to keep me kettled up at his convenience.

As to ordeals, IMHO I believe that these can be ordeals. Airlines ignoring their policies and back up plans for IRROPS make them worse.

mec72

I could be a bit more sympathetic if this happened at an outstation, but given the sheer volume of BA traffic at LHR and LGW, IRROPS must be happening on a daily basis and I'm surprised handling of these is not better and more organized.

nallison

Indeed. And of course then when BA abandon their duties and leave passengers to it, just booking a hotel yourself isn't necessarily that easy leaving aside whether you have the financial means. Presumably it requires wi-fi, does the airport have it? Many don't or it is so poor to be worthless for much more than whatsapp. And then if someone can book a hotel they have to figure out how to get there, in a foreign country in the middle of the night, where the taxi driver may have no idea where said hotel is, with no idea how much the transport will cost (and it will probably come as quite a shock coming from just about any other country in the world!) or whether they'll ever get the money back.

KeaneJohn

One of the best posts on Flyertalk

Ancient Observer

Yup, agreed. See my post 84.

Ancient Observer

By the way, the "load manager" or whatever he was called, refused to respond at all when I repeated back to him what he had said.

So I now keep my phone available when on board, (when I remember, which is 35%).

simons1

Why is it foolish to expect airlines to honour their legal responsibilities? I don't give my kids credit cards, I expect the airline to do what is right.

These comments are made in a quite insidious way, using language designed to deflect attention from the issue at hand. What the OP was discussing was a specific situation, we did not need to get deflected onto what another very experienced traveller would do in the circumstances.

And not everyone knows what to google and when. To the contrary people still place their faith in organisations like British Airways to do what is legally and morally right not to wash their hands of customers in times of need.