A Personal View
Mar 31, 2017, 12:56 pm
#91
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2012
Programs: BA Executive Club
Posts: 1,037
I have appreciated all the posts on this thread. For the most part they have been stimulating and well argued. Thanks for that.
I would like to emphasise that all comments about the service given by BA are valuable whether they be negative or positive. Only that way can improvement be influenced and good practice maintained. I just believe that the tone should be reasonable.
Thanks again for the debate.
I would like to emphasise that all comments about the service given by BA are valuable whether they be negative or positive. Only that way can improvement be influenced and good practice maintained. I just believe that the tone should be reasonable.
Thanks again for the debate.
Mar 31, 2017, 1:53 pm
#92
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 698
Free speech is great until it allows some (those most powerful) to overcome others.
Intelligent considered opinions are what are essential. 'Not holding back' doesn't fall in this category.
Last edited by Oxon Flyer; Mar 31, 2017 at 2:23 pm Reason: Remove comment that doesn't contribute to the thread topic
Mar 31, 2017, 6:35 pm
#93
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 114
I'd be wary of censoring comments to avoid hurt feelings. I've certainly seen comments that are mean-spirited and add no value to a conversation, but I've also seen oversensitive posters who seem to take offense to everything. Ultimately, if you allow anonymous forum comments to affect your mental health, the internet may not be the place for you.
Mar 31, 2017, 6:57 pm
#94
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: BA Gold/Marriott Gold/HH Diamond/IC Plat Amba
Posts: 5,992
I'd be wary of censoring comments to avoid hurt feelings. I've certainly seen comments that are mean-spirited and add no value to a conversation, but I've also seen oversensitive posters who seem to take offense to everything. Ultimately, if you allow anonymous forum comments to affect your mental health, the internet may not be the place for you.
Mar 31, 2017, 7:18 pm
#95
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,211
PUCCI GALORE used to regularly get in touch with me by PM to tell me all the galley gossip. However since I rejected her offer of a free week in her caravan at Bognor she's ignored me.
Mar 31, 2017, 7:44 pm
#96
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: NZ Airpoints GE, Qantas Platinum, Accor Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 968
I sometimes wonder whether the more vociferous comments come from those who don't actually pay for their travel. By accident or design, many have status and access to premium cabins through the generosity or otherwise of their employer. If huge BA corporate customers started kicking off then perhaps the airline would listen, but they largely don't; unless it represented an escalation in costs.
Much of my travel is self-paid and in economy (but not on BA) and I accept that things go wrong, that there is a limit to what airlines can do. I will expect a decent level of service when I pay a lot more (about one long haul J-class trip/month) and if it goes wrong I usually deal with this directly with the airline and usually get the response I seek. I have about 100 flights booked between now and September so my expectations of airline service are realistic and the lower prices enable me to work in a far more flexible and mobile lifestyle that I could never have dreamed of back in the 1980's. For me it is about what air travel has enabled me to do than the flights per se.
Much of my travel is self-paid and in economy (but not on BA) and I accept that things go wrong, that there is a limit to what airlines can do. I will expect a decent level of service when I pay a lot more (about one long haul J-class trip/month) and if it goes wrong I usually deal with this directly with the airline and usually get the response I seek. I have about 100 flights booked between now and September so my expectations of airline service are realistic and the lower prices enable me to work in a far more flexible and mobile lifestyle that I could never have dreamed of back in the 1980's. For me it is about what air travel has enabled me to do than the flights per se.
Mar 31, 2017, 8:03 pm
#97
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All over the place often South Wales and Lake District
Programs: BA Gold for Life Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,552
I've been on these forums for a few years now and I'd say the forum is overall fairly balanced. There's some pretty rabid pro-BA people (I've been advised we're not meant to speculate as to why they are so rabidly pro-BA) and also certainly a significant number of very critical posters. And a number of people who may criticize BA on one day and may defend them the next day.
There has definitely been an uptick in anti-BA posts in recent months. But that's to be expected given the decisions taken by BA management in recent months/years. If you reduce your service, there's going to be negative feedback. I am sure the hides of these wily old executives are thick enough to take a bit of negativity.
I consider posts like the OP of this thread to be a rather stealthy form of pro-BA 'propaganda' though. When you use phrases such as 'I actually like the greater choice of what I want to eat or drink when flying ET' you aren't really making an argument, you're using BA's 'authorized' marketing speak almost word for word.
There has definitely been an uptick in anti-BA posts in recent months. But that's to be expected given the decisions taken by BA management in recent months/years. If you reduce your service, there's going to be negative feedback. I am sure the hides of these wily old executives are thick enough to take a bit of negativity.
I consider posts like the OP of this thread to be a rather stealthy form of pro-BA 'propaganda' though. When you use phrases such as 'I actually like the greater choice of what I want to eat or drink when flying ET' you aren't really making an argument, you're using BA's 'authorized' marketing speak almost word for word.
These posters are using supposed humour to accuse the OP of being a shill, and this is happening too often on these pages.
Mar 31, 2017, 8:05 pm
#98
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All over the place often South Wales and Lake District
Programs: BA Gold for Life Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,552
I would expect you to acknowledge that it's not a like-for-like replacement. Complimentary food has been replaced by food for purchase. If you only present the 'positive' side of a situation (i.e. the 'greater choice'), it's fair to call that spin.
You're not really addressing the concerns of people who are angered by that part of the issue by choosing to ignore it. That's what made BA's response to the criticism from the public so bad. It's a much abused corporate communications cliche to always focus on the positive to distract from the negative, but there's limits to that. When I see it on a forum as part of someone's 'personal view' it makes me cringe.
You're not really addressing the concerns of people who are angered by that part of the issue by choosing to ignore it. That's what made BA's response to the criticism from the public so bad. It's a much abused corporate communications cliche to always focus on the positive to distract from the negative, but there's limits to that. When I see it on a forum as part of someone's 'personal view' it makes me cringe.
That's somewhat of a misrepresentation. I never said that everyone who praises BA is a stooge or paid-for-PR-lackey, just that there are certainly posters here where the question is in the back of the observer's mind.
There has been a flurry of negative posts about BA, sure,
There has been a flurry of negative posts about BA, sure,
There hasn't been a flurry of negative posts about BA. Nearly EVERY topic is taken over by it. Too often someone having a positive experience is shouted down.
Last edited by itsmeitisss; Mar 31, 2017 at 8:11 pm
Mar 31, 2017, 8:20 pm
#99
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All over the place often South Wales and Lake District
Programs: BA Gold for Life Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,552
I'd say that was a joke rather than an insult. There was nothing offensive in it. Arguably it was a little predictable, but you can be critical or attempt humour, without being insulting. I have never seen a post that I would objectively describe as offensive- but maybe that's a sad reflection of my upbringing 
As for the OP, I agree that sometimes there is a lack of objectivity about some posts, but it would make for a blander forum if every post was about a schedule change or aircraft type.
As for the OP, I agree that sometimes there is a lack of objectivity about some posts, but it would make for a blander forum if every post was about a schedule change or aircraft type.
It's like an equation.
Viewpoint differing to mine that is broadly pro status quo = must be management view (but I'm joking really, honest) It's a put-down pure and simple.
Last edited by itsmeitisss; Mar 31, 2017 at 8:29 pm
Mar 31, 2017, 8:21 pm
#100
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
I would argue nearly all the threads that get shut down are where the OP has a complaint about BA services or policies and a select group attempt to derail that thread by picking at the OP from various angles, trying to discredit or downplay the OP's comments.
My viewpoint is the err on the side of consumer advocacy since that is what we are - consumers of airline and travel products. It's called FlyerTalk, not SupplierTalk. Suppliers have plenty of $$$ and means to get their messages out.
I have no problem that there are vociferous brand advocates. That said, here on the BA forum they seem to be less constrained than in other FT forums and regularly appear to derail OPs who have issues with BA.
My viewpoint is the err on the side of consumer advocacy since that is what we are - consumers of airline and travel products. It's called FlyerTalk, not SupplierTalk. Suppliers have plenty of $$$ and means to get their messages out.
I have no problem that there are vociferous brand advocates. That said, here on the BA forum they seem to be less constrained than in other FT forums and regularly appear to derail OPs who have issues with BA.
Mar 31, 2017, 8:32 pm
#101
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: BA Gold/Marriott Gold/HH Diamond/IC Plat Amba
Posts: 5,992
I wouldn't see it as a joke but a one line dismissal of a fellow FTer's opinion which is the biggest insult of all. It's passive aggressive dressed as a joke intended to block the view. It's not and isn't intended to be humour IMHO. Certainly not unique to this forum, but that doesn't change the motive of the post.
It's like an equation.
Viewpoint differing to mine that is broadly pro status quo = must be management view (but I'm joking really, honest) It's a put-down pure and simple.
It's like an equation.
Viewpoint differing to mine that is broadly pro status quo = must be management view (but I'm joking really, honest) It's a put-down pure and simple.
Mar 31, 2017, 8:43 pm
#102
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All over the place often South Wales and Lake District
Programs: BA Gold for Life Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,552
This part of the forum used to be the most useful and the most amusing. Now it spills over into nastiness. Ok, this leads to bigger discussions, which is good for Internet Brands ads (I've only just turned off ....... and I still find the ads too intrusive - I only used it because the ads were making the forum impossible to use on safari had to keep refreshing the page - am using it on chrome now).
Too often the response is, if you don't like it, don't post. A bit like "If you don't like the heat stay out of the kitchen". My response is "But I want to be in the kitchen and I don't mind it being warm but there's no need to jab me with a red hot poker".
Banter disguised as insults is still insults. I'm tired of the excuse that its just a joke or 'banter'.
Mar 31, 2017, 10:34 pm
#103
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Here today, gone tomorrow
Programs: Nothing shiny :-(
Posts: 2,493
I wouldn't see it as a joke but a one line dismissal of a fellow FTer's opinion which is the biggest insult of all. It's passive aggressive dressed as a joke intended to block the view. It's not and isn't intended to be humour IMHO. Certainly not unique to this forum, but that doesn't change the motive of the post.
Mar 31, 2017, 10:52 pm
#104
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BOS
Programs: BA Silver, Mucci
Posts: 5,289
Whilst I appreciate the view points of those who feel that people are affected by what other people say to them either in a thread or by direct message should simple grow a thicker skin, this really reflect poorly on them and I am sorry, I really don't buy the excuse of this being an anonymous internet forum as a reason that people should be allowed to hurt the feelings of others; if they need to hide by an anonymity of an internet forum to cyber bully, I have little respect for their poor character, which is likely not the best in the real world either. The other incredible important factor with anonymity is that you often don't know what else is going on in that persons life, a quick snide comment may not seam that bad taken at face value, but this could have a detrimental effect on the individual.
I did take some time away from this forum, but thankfully I did return, I am stronger for it and often laugh to myself in my head when idiots try and make further personal attacks that someone is so insecure in themselves that they feel the need to do so. I am glad I did return because, whilst this forum does contain a few rotten apple, there are far more genuinely lovely people who share they experiences and advice to enrich the lives of others and I feel privileged to listen to genuine views of others irrespective of whether I disagree with them.
I have a greater awareness now, then when I joined this forum, of the way in which posts project and trust that should anyone ever feel that I cross their own personal line, they would tell me and I would be able to respect that. I hope others will be able to do the same.
I did take some time away from this forum, but thankfully I did return, I am stronger for it and often laugh to myself in my head when idiots try and make further personal attacks that someone is so insecure in themselves that they feel the need to do so. I am glad I did return because, whilst this forum does contain a few rotten apple, there are far more genuinely lovely people who share they experiences and advice to enrich the lives of others and I feel privileged to listen to genuine views of others irrespective of whether I disagree with them.
I have a greater awareness now, then when I joined this forum, of the way in which posts project and trust that should anyone ever feel that I cross their own personal line, they would tell me and I would be able to respect that. I hope others will be able to do the same.
I am one of the first to speak out against snark, and against those who "pile in" on posters, but I am not seeing that happen here.
Mar 31, 2017, 11:04 pm
#105
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
I would argue nearly all the threads that get shut down are where the OP has a complaint about BA services or policies and a select group attempt to derail that thread by picking at the OP from various angles, trying to discredit or downplay the OP's comments.
My viewpoint is the err on the side of consumer advocacy since that is what we are - consumers of airline and travel products. It's called FlyerTalk, not SupplierTalk. Suppliers have plenty of $$$ and means to get their messages out.
I have no problem that there are vociferous brand advocates. That said, here on the BA forum they seem to be less constrained than in other FT forums and regularly appear to derail OPs who have issues with BA.
My viewpoint is the err on the side of consumer advocacy since that is what we are - consumers of airline and travel products. It's called FlyerTalk, not SupplierTalk. Suppliers have plenty of $$$ and means to get their messages out.
I have no problem that there are vociferous brand advocates. That said, here on the BA forum they seem to be less constrained than in other FT forums and regularly appear to derail OPs who have issues with BA.
I'm not going to go as far as to say that FT should slant pro-consumer simply because most of us are consumers, and the BA forum is not the first and certainly will not be the last to turn more adversarial/negative when consumers feel that their benefits are being reduced. But when there is a larger/more vociferous pro-business faction, it should be no surprise that this forum also becomes so much more polarized/divisive/fractious than others when a lot of consumers feel things are going badly.